Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03.12.2019, 10:43
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Vienna
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
niki has no particular reputation at present
Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

Hello, following situation

I am living in Austria but because I am working for a Swiss company I am paying my taxes in Geneva.

A few months ago I got married and now I am not sure how and if if I have to declare my wife's salary. She is living and working in Austria and is also paying here taxes there

I understand how the taxation is working for two incomes in Switzerland but what about my case.

Any advice would be much appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03.12.2019, 11:09
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,809
Groaned at 83 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 16,356 Times in 7,274 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

Are you a cross border worker with permit G?
An you do actually work in Switzerland and not remotely from Austria?

If I am not mistaken your tax at source should change from bareme A to bareme C. https://www.ge.ch/impot-source/barem...e-impot-source
You will have to inform your employer about marriage and that your wife has an income.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03.12.2019, 11:45
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Vienna
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
niki has no particular reputation at present
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

No, I live and work in Austria. No cross border worker. But because my employer is based in Geneva I have to pay my taxes there.

If I now declare my wife's salary my taxes in Switzerland will increase a lot. Is there any way to claim something back as my wife is paying here taxes in Austria?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03.12.2019, 12:02
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,809
Groaned at 83 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 16,356 Times in 7,274 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

Quote:
View Post
No, I live and work in Austria. No cross border worker.
In that case it does not make sense that you are taxed in Geneva. I you do not actually work in Switzerland, Austria alone has the right to tax you. Article 15 of the double taxation treaty. https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...014/index.html

Quote:
View Post
If I now declare my wife's salary my taxes in Switzerland will increase a lot.
Bareme C, save some exceptions, will lower your tax liability in Geneva.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
This user groans at aSwissInTheUS for this post:
  #5  
Old 03.12.2019, 12:05
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 3,879
Groaned at 126 Times in 112 Posts
Thanked 5,344 Times in 2,582 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

Quote:
View Post
In that case it does not make sense that you are taxed in Geneva. I you do not actually work in Switzerland, Austria alone has the right to tax you. Article 15 of the double taxation treaty. https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...014/index.html
Might be a nasty shock coming if the Austrians wake up to this - their taxes are considerably higher than Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 03.12.2019, 12:31
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Vienna
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
niki has no particular reputation at present
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

Quote:
In that case it does not make sense that you are taxed in Geneva. I you do not actually work in Switzerland, Austria alone has the right to tax you. Article 15 of the double taxation treaty
It's a bit of a complicated case (I work in aviation) but I have to pay my taxes in Switzerland, there is no doubt about that.

Quote:
Bareme C, save some exceptions, will lower your tax liability in Geneva.
Sorry, don't really get what you mean.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03.12.2019, 12:36
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,058
Groaned at 313 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 9,989 Times in 5,035 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

Quote:
View Post
It's a bit of a complicated case (I work in aviation) but I have to pay my taxes in Switzerland, there is no doubt about that.

This is what happens in the Netherlands:


An airline pilot taxed abroad is possible even if the pilot is residing in the Netherlands. For pilots and crew of a ship special rules apply where the income is taxed. This rule even varies per tax treaty.
Employment income is taxed in the country where the employment is being executed. In case an employee works in more than one country, the salary is split in proportion to the countries where the job is being done.


Are you a pilot?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03.12.2019, 12:42
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Vienna
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
niki has no particular reputation at present
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

Quote:
Are you a pilot?
Yes I am.

But the question is really not about where I have to pay my taxes. There is no doubt about that. It's just about the income of my wife (which is higher than mine) and which is taxed in Austria.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03.12.2019, 13:26
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,809
Groaned at 83 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 16,356 Times in 7,274 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, don't really get what you mean.
You simply state to your employer that you are married, and that your wife has also income (It is not important how much). From now on you are taxed using bareme C instead of bareme A. If your wife is not working bareme B would apply.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04.12.2019, 01:33
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Vienna
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
niki has no particular reputation at present
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

Why isn't it important how much her salary is. Isn't that required to caculate my taxation for Bareme C?
As far as I understand it the two salaries have to be added up to calculate my taxation.
I just thought there is a way to avoid that because she neither working nor paying taxes in Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04.12.2019, 02:11
kri's Avatar
kri kri is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,070
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 676 Times in 381 Posts
kri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

I don't believe there is a way out - Switzerland is known to look at your worldwide income to calculate tax rate and apply that to the taxable income in CH.

That is also the case for non residents who may have income generated for example from renting out a Swiss property - worldwide income used to calculate tax rate and apply it to rental return, despite both spouses in this case not living or earning in CH.

K
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04.12.2019, 11:47
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,991
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,027 Times in 4,488 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

Quote:
View Post
Why isn't it important how much her salary is. Isn't that required to caculate my taxation for Bareme C?
As far as I understand it the two salaries have to be added up to calculate my taxation.
I just thought there is a way to avoid that because she neither working nor paying taxes in Switzerland.
The barème is just the category ; single, married one income, married two incomes , etc. then the appropriate rate is applied to your monthly salary. Your wife will not be taxed in Switzerland but your category and thus your taxes might change.

However, if I were you, I would call the tax office because it’s not straight forward.

On thé forum there were people married with children in your situation who where taxed as a single because the wife and children didn’t live in Switzerland.

Call the tax office.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank miniMia for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 04.12.2019, 12:07
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,809
Groaned at 83 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 16,356 Times in 7,274 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

Quote:
View Post
Why isn't it important how much her salary is. Isn't that required to caculate my taxation for Bareme C?
Because tax at source is simplified and just has those baremes.
But your assumption is correct for full, regular taxation. In this case the applicable tax rate depends on your and your wives worldwide income.

The cantons tax offices are normally very helpful and informative. Just get in contact with them.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 05.12.2019, 18:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lugano
Posts: 609
Groaned at 12 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 668 Times in 317 Posts
LuganoPirate has an excellent reputationLuganoPirate has an excellent reputationLuganoPirate has an excellent reputationLuganoPirate has an excellent reputation
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

I believe in Switzerland, and elsewhere, you do not have to declare your wife's income if she does not want to, and can make a declaration in her own name.

In this case she only has to make it to the Austrian authorities, and the OP can inform the tax office that his wife is taxed separately and does not wish to disclose to him (or them, to whom she has no obligation) the amount or source of her income / wealth.

One of the problems in asking the cantonal authorities for advice, is that you expose your hand to them, and this can be a disadvantage.

However, as always, my advice would be to talk to a good tax lawyer. Yes it will costs between CHF 500 and CHF 1,000 but it will be money well spent and will save them a lot more than that in the future going forward.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06.12.2019, 10:52
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,457
Groaned at 288 Times in 245 Posts
Thanked 21,412 Times in 7,803 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

Quote:
View Post
I believe in Switzerland, and elsewhere, you do not have to declare your wife's income if she does not want to, and can make a declaration in her own name.
And I believe you are very wrong about that one. In most countries do married couples have one joint tax declaration.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 06.12.2019, 11:41
kri's Avatar
kri kri is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,070
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 676 Times in 381 Posts
kri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Married couple with two incomes (only one in Switzerland)

Quote:
View Post
And I believe you are very wrong about that one. In most countries do married couples have one joint tax declaration.
Agree and Switzerland definitely does and I don't think they will be impressed when you say "my wife has a right not to disclose" given Switzerland requires to report both worldwide income and wealth for tax purposes.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank kri for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Visa D for Non Married Couple ClaireP Permits/visas/government 3 01.03.2019 09:19
Tax system for a married couple Giankan Daily life 2 16.01.2019 00:00
Non-EU C permit for a married couple machangmane Permits/visas/government 9 22.07.2016 09:12
Married couple tax porsch1909 Finance/banking/taxation 1 18.04.2010 15:53


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0