Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19.01.2020, 22:12
Relagu's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Vaud
Posts: 37
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 14 Times in 9 Posts
Relagu has no particular reputation at present
Swiss robo advisors

Hi!

I have recently moved to Switzerland and I am no looking to options on where to put/invest some spare money I have that currently is not generating any revenues.
Coming from the UK, I have been using some robo advisors that have managed rather efficiently my money charging me somehow low fees.

Having had a quick look at the Swiss robo advisor market, the offer is quite limited and much more expensive if we compare with other countries in the EU.

I am adding a 2018 chart with the main platforms, bear in mind this might be not up to date as of Jan 2020. (In german)



Have you had any experience with any platform?
What can you tell us of their wealth management standards?
Fees?

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22.01.2020, 16:39
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Baselland
Posts: 17
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
shiitake has no particular reputation at present
Re: Swiss robo advisors

I've only used TrueWealth and the return was ~3.8% in 1 year which isn't all that great. On the flip side it's only 50% equities (all of which are ETFs) so should be lower risk compared to a more aggressive portfolio. I have it on the back burner and will probably just make small deposits for convenience and some CHF exposure.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 23.01.2020, 09:02
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,233
Groaned at 347 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 12,010 Times in 4,121 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss robo advisors

I used Swissquote e-Private Banking for a number of years. It underperformed in my opinion, but I felt it was at least fairly safe.

This year I shut it all down as I felt I could do better buying and selling shares myself - which proved to be the case...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 08.04.2020, 20:31
martin959's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: St Gallen
Posts: 1,258
Groaned at 27 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 575 Times in 327 Posts
martin959 has earned the respect of manymartin959 has earned the respect of manymartin959 has earned the respect of many
Re: Swiss robo advisors

To be honest, all of those that we can access from Switzerland range from shady to super shady...

I wish we had something like Betterment...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09.04.2020, 11:29
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,003
Groaned at 450 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 22,294 Times in 11,536 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss robo advisors

Quote:
View Post
I used Swissquote e-Private Banking for a number of years. It underperformed in my opinion, but I felt it was at least fairly safe.

This year I shut it all down as I felt I could do better buying and selling shares myself - which proved to be the case...
3 months on is this still the case?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04.10.2020, 12:28
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central
Posts: 216
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 51 Posts
wheatism has made some interesting contributions
Re: Swiss robo advisors

Sigh... it's been a tough 2020 and after faffing about losing money (mostly due to covid issues not investing mistakes) and fighting with various investment companies about getting as suitable documents for Swiss tax purposes I've closed down all my other accounts (Nutmeg, Wealthify, Freetrade) and put what little I now have left into.... drumroll..

Selma. https://www.selma.io/

There are loads of posts about investing but one big lesson for a "low amount" (i.e. <50,000 CHF) investor is first to decide:

1. DIY or Robo
2. If you are a trader or investor
3. ESG or not

Everyone has their own goals and I'd advise anyone to figure that out first before deciding. I've nothing against IB, II, Yova, Trading212 etc etc or any of the others but depending on the above will determine what best suits you.

For me it's Robo, ESG and investor. I also wanted simple, simple, simple. And safe...

I looked at the usual and as I am now starting again I decided "hand off" and went with Selma because:

1. It's Swiss based and they provide a Swiss tax document (I found hard to get elsewhere)
2. Money is deposited in Saxo bank and so protected
3. They focus on ethical (ESG) which is a priority for me
4. There is an offer for 12 months free of fees for up to CHF 5000 via 'the poor swiss dot com'. I'm not affiliated with them but just used their link to sign up and get fees free for 12 months

Linking a bank account is easy (just enter Swiss IBAN). There is no fancy app which sucks coming from other neo banks but for me it's dump the cash in and ignore it for a year or so.

I might come back in 12 months and post an update. Maybe I'll move on elsewhere then but for now... sorted.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04.10.2020, 15:02
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Central
Posts: 17
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
KashKau has no particular reputation at present
Re: Swiss robo advisors

This is ridiculous. Why are you paying 0.5-1%+ of your money for someone to lose and underperform for you?


Put it in all into indexes, costs are practically nothing (with the right broker) and it literally can't go tits up in this zero interest rate regime


There's no added value by roboadvisors in swiss. Just added losses.

Quote:
1. It's Swiss based and they provide a Swiss tax document (I found hard to get elsewhere)
You don't need it for swiss taxes


Quote:

2. Money is deposited in Saxo bank and so protected
Yeah, the uninvested bits of money. Once they are securities there's no protection in switzerland (beyond segregation requirements)

Last edited by KashKau; 04.10.2020 at 15:36.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank KashKau for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 05.10.2020, 00:15
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 179
Groaned at 11 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 430 Times in 129 Posts
GParker has a reputation beyond reputeGParker has a reputation beyond reputeGParker has a reputation beyond reputeGParker has a reputation beyond reputeGParker has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss robo advisors

Quote:
View Post
Put it in all into indexes, costs are practically nothing (with the right broker) and it literally can't go tits up in this zero interest rate regime
Indexes also go down.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05.10.2020, 00:50
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,508
Groaned at 217 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 7,421 Times in 3,283 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss robo advisors

Quote:
View Post
This is ridiculous.Why are you paying 0.5-1%+ of your money for someone to lose and underperform for you?


Put it in all into indexes, costs are practically nothing (with the right broker) and it literally can't go tits up in this zero interest rate regime
Yep, the two sentences that follow that one pretty much are!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05.10.2020, 02:45
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Central
Posts: 17
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
KashKau has no particular reputation at present
Re: Swiss robo advisors

Quote:
View Post
Indexes also go down.
Central banks have got your back. btfd
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05.10.2020, 12:49
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,508
Groaned at 217 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 7,421 Times in 3,283 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss robo advisors

Quote:
View Post
Central banks have got your back. btfd
They certainly have not.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05.10.2020, 16:31
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 8,954
Groaned at 472 Times in 353 Posts
Thanked 11,910 Times in 6,192 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss robo advisors

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, the uninvested bits of money. Once they are securities there's no protection in switzerland (beyond segregation requirements)
There's none anywhere. Credit (the "money" you handed over to the bank) is subject to credit risks, that's what the insurance covers. Once a security has been bought it's no longer credit (to the bank/broker) thus said credit risk has ceased to exist.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09.12.2020, 14:57
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Ebikon
Posts: 35
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 40 Times in 15 Posts
rastapopulus is considered knowledgeablerastapopulus is considered knowledgeablerastapopulus is considered knowledgeable
Re: Swiss robo advisors

As a starter, Roboadvisors feel safer and thus plan to go with Truewealth due to their low fees.
Anyone using Investart? The ad keeps popping up on EF and it got me intrigued
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 31.01.2021, 11:28
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bern
Posts: 15
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
FrenchTouch has no particular reputation at present
Re: Swiss robo advisors

No experience with Investart, but I am also very curious about it. I would love to find more reviews on the service as it seems (over?) promising.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 31.01.2021, 12:13
kri's Avatar
kri kri is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,833
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 1,568 Times in 812 Posts
kri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss robo advisors

I have been happy with Truewealth myself. Created different portfolio for different purposes and risk profile. Obviously you pay someone to do work for you but I am happy at the performance and that someone is thinking about it.
I also manage some shares myself but find it a headache to research, know when to buy and sell etc so am ok with the combination.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 31.01.2021, 12:20
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central
Posts: 216
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 51 Posts
wheatism has made some interesting contributions
Re: Swiss robo advisors

Short update... still happy with Selma. Performance currently is over 10% since opening September in 2020.
Obviously your own return will vary by "investment profile".

Shameless plug: join with my link and you and me both get CHF5,000 managed free for 1 year
Attached Images
 

Last edited by wheatism; 31.01.2021 at 12:26. Reason: Link added
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01.02.2021, 17:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,532
Groaned at 51 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 3,428 Times in 1,648 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss robo advisors

I still don't understand why you wouldn't just invest in MSCI World or SP500 rather than this.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 01.02.2021, 17:46
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central
Posts: 216
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 51 Posts
wheatism has made some interesting contributions
Re: Swiss robo advisors

MSCI World grew 7% for last 12 months, 13% for last 3 so about on par with Selma returns BUT more importantly (to me) is I do not want to invest in oil, tobacco, arms etc so only invest in ESG.

That said, I am on a "free year", maybe once I have to pay I may rethink but the better Robo companies actively rebalance investments and get reasonable returns, sometimes better than standard indexes.

I do have investment in iShares MSCI USA SRI which is doing pretty well so might switch from Robo to Trading212/IB/Degiro at some point.

As someone new to investing I do believe Robo is like dipping a toe in, in a fairly safe way. With a bit more experience and if I can be bothered then "newbies" like me may choose specific ETF's to invest in instead... I guess it's a matter of effort vs reward based on knowledge
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank wheatism for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 02.02.2021, 11:41
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 343
Groaned at 21 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 404 Times in 187 Posts
Sinking has earned the respect of manySinking has earned the respect of manySinking has earned the respect of many
Re: Swiss robo advisors

Thank you for this thread and for sharing your experience.

I am totally ignorant re: robo advisors and have been looking for an easy way to invest (a little) money.

Keeping it in the bank gives 0% interests so I would be happy with anything better than that.

Will give Selma a try, thank you!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02.02.2021, 17:28
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central
Posts: 216
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 51 Posts
wheatism has made some interesting contributions
Re: Swiss robo advisors

Quote:
View Post
I am totally ignorant re: robo advisors and have been looking for an easy way to invest (a little) money.

Keeping it in the bank gives 0% interests so I would be happy with anything better than that.
That's exactly how I started. I had money doing nothing at 0% interest, in a PostFinace account.

One tip whatever Robo you choose... do not panick if the value goes down!!! One week after I joined Selma I had lost a load of money! Hold your nerve. For me I was back with decent earnings within 4 weeks.

That's investing vs trading
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advisor, investment, low fees, robo, roboadvisor




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ETF robo-advisors: True Wealth? sunthings Finance/banking/taxation 14 09.09.2019 11:15
Tax Advisors make mistakes too acorndrive Family matters/health 4 23.11.2017 19:30
US investments/financial advisors BKL Finance/banking/taxation 5 21.09.2015 15:12
Tax Advisors in Zurich/Zug joanfus Finance/banking/taxation 0 22.03.2013 12:25
RAV advisors--are they all the same? Zeynep G Employment 20 14.12.2011 14:07


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0