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  #21  
Old 21.05.2021, 18:39
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Re: Question on Intrum debt collector

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There is Swiss branch under Swiss regulations or one would be with no obligation to pay
There is no obligation to pay them.

Tom
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  #22  
Old 13.06.2021, 17:13
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Re: Question on Intrum debt collector

UPDATE:
I wrote Intrum that I would pay the original amount due to UPC plus the interest. But I would NOT pay the "Verzugskosten", which are illegal, according to OC 106, unless they were on the original bill - which they were not.

I also sent a copy of every letter to the Konsumentenshutz.

So I paid the original amount + interest, using the orange slip from Intrum. This is what you should do and not pay using the original slip form UPC. That would only create a mess, because, as someone wrote, they "sold" your debt to Intrum.

I just received a confirmation from Intrum that I had until the end of the month to pay - even though I had written to them that I HAD already paid!!!! - the correct amount (original bill + interest, without the "Verzugskosten").

Funny thing is that they wrote that if I missed the deadline, they would claim the whole amount again! As if it would suddenly become more legal!

BUT it has been extremely difficult to get the original bill, because of the merge between UPC & Sunrise, they couldn't find our client account. I had to try different times to different numbers until one person realized where to look and was able to find our account and our bill.

Anyway, the main point here is NOT to pay anything besides the original amount plus the interest and fight against the "delay costs", which could maybe be justified, but only if they were on the original bill from UPC and if UPC could prove that the delay had generated for them additional costs, which apparently is very unliky and very difficult to prove.

Hope this will be helpfull for others in the same situation.
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  #23  
Old 13.06.2021, 17:33
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Re: Question on Intrum debt collector

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There is no obligation to pay them.

Tom
Not entirely true - a debt may be transferred to another company (CO art. 164) , so it is possible there is an obligation to pay them.

But:

1. They have absolutely no right to add additional charges (except as defined in your original contract).

2. Except interest at standard rates (usually 5% p.a.)

3. The original company must inform you in writing (CO art. 165)

4. The original company must provide all the evidence, contracts etc to the new company (CO art. 170) - so no excuses from the debt company, they should have all the details.

5. You may pay the original company ONLY up to the point where they have informed you of the transfer, not after that (CO art 167).
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Old 13.06.2021, 17:51
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Re: Question on Intrum debt collector

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3. The original company must inform you in writing (CO art. 165)
We were never informed.

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4. The original company must provide all the evidence, contracts etc to the new company (CO art. 170) - so no excuses from the debt company, they should have all the details.
Intrum said they didn't have the original bill ... can you believe this? I almost thought this was a spam, until, after many efforts on my part, I could get UPC to send us the original bill.

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5. You may pay the original company ONLY up to the point where they have informed you of the transfer, not after that (CO art 167).
Thank you for all these information!
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Old 13.06.2021, 18:07
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Re: Question on Intrum debt collector

Code of Obligations where the references are from:

https://fedlex.data.admin.ch/filesto...1-en-pdf-a.pdf
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Old 13.06.2021, 18:25
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Re: Question on Intrum debt collector

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We were never informed.



Intrum said they didn't have the original bill ... can you believe this? I almost thought this was a spam, until, after many efforts on my part, I could get UPC to send us the original bill.



Thank you for all these information!
Well done and kudos for standing up for your rights.

Intrum are an evil organization who rely on misinformation, legaleze and outright bullying to take money off people who can typically ill afford to part with it.
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Old 14.06.2021, 16:39
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Re: Question on Intrum debt collector

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Well done and kudos for standing up for your rights.

Intrum are an evil organization who rely on misinformation, legaleze and outright bullying to take money off people who can typically ill afford to part with it.
Thank you!

This thing is, I was going to pay their first bill. But I couldn't get around the idea of paying this horrendous fee they added, that was 75% of the original bill.
That is what motivated me to dig deeper and to fight it.
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Old 14.06.2021, 17:04
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Re: Question on Intrum debt collector

Got in a dispute with a similar company, for a bill that in my case I had no idea what was about. I asked them for a copy of the bill but they never sent it to me. Anyhoo, apparently it was for 100 francs, and this company wanted me to pay 400, plus 200 for taking me out of the register. I said I'd pay the 400 if they told me what the bill was about, but only if they also took me off the register without that absurd 200 franc fee.

They said no. I said okay I'm not paying, and then they threatened me on the phone "we know everything about you, we know where to find you" (literally said that).

The thing is, if you wait 5 years, the debt disappears from the register. So that's what I did. F*** them.
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  #29  
Old 14.06.2021, 21:49
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Re: Question on Intrum debt collector

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The thing is, if you wait 5 years, the debt disappears from the register. So that's what I did. F*** them.
I would be cautious with such an approach .

An entry in the Betreibungsregister can hurt you for example if you are looking for an apartment or applying for a credit
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  #30  
Old 14.06.2021, 22:38
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Re: Question on Intrum debt collector

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Got in a dispute with a similar company, for a bill that in my case I had no idea what was about. I asked them for a copy of the bill but they never sent it to me. Anyhoo, apparently it was for 100 francs, and this company wanted me to pay 400, plus 200 for taking me out of the register. I said I'd pay the 400 if they told me what the bill was about, but only if they also took me off the register without that absurd 200 franc fee.

They said no. I said okay I'm not paying, and then they threatened me on the phone "we know everything about you, we know where to find you" (literally said that).

The thing is, if you wait 5 years, the debt disappears from the register. So that's what I did. F*** them.
The problem with that approach is that after four years and threehundredandsixtyfour days you will get a new bill and the cycle starts again.
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  #31  
Old 14.06.2021, 23:14
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Re: Question on Intrum debt collector

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I would be cautious with such an approach .

An entry in the Betreibungsregister can hurt you for example if you are looking for an apartment or applying for a credit
Yes, for the first 5 years. I bought an apartment, no problem.

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The problem with that approach is that after four years and threehundredandsixtyfour days you will get a new bill and the cycle starts again.
Didn't happen to me. But that also sounds highly illegal to me, what did they bill you for when that happened?

I add the the only reason why I took this approach was because I honestly have no idea what this was about and they were impolite, and attempted to charge me 600 francs for what they claim originally was a 100 franc bill. That is ridiculous. But I would never encourage people from knowingly avoid paying their bills.
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  #32  
Old 15.06.2021, 10:22
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Re: Question on Intrum debt collector

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Didn't happen to me. But that also sounds highly illegal to me, what did they bill you for when that happened?
Why would it be illegal if the debt is unpaid?

AFAIK there are two legal options - pay the debt OR go to court to get the debt cancelled / confirmed invalid.

If the debtor doesn't take one of those options, there isn't a statute of limitations on the debt, it will remain on record indefinitely.
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  #33  
Old 15.06.2021, 17:50
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Re: Question on Intrum debt collector

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If the debtor doesn't take one of those options, there isn't a statute of limitations on the debt, it will remain on record indefinitely.
AFAIA all ordinary debt under Swiss law lapses after ten years at the latest, some types lapse after two or five. The creditor needs a VerlustSchein to extend that period, and those are issued by the courts only. It's up to the creditor to get any legal proceedings going, not the alleged debtor.
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