Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19.02.2020, 21:02
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Ingsoc has no particular reputation at present
Normal tax bill significantly more than withholding tax

Hello,

Last year I finally broke 120K, my overtime pay pushed me over the limit where I have to do the normal tax declaration even though I'm paying withholding tax.

I was happy to do it, as I read here you'll probably get money back. At the end of the online tax form, they give you the provisional numbers, and I was quite surprised to see it's 3K more than the withholding tax I already paid. I live in Zurich.

I already went to my HR with this, and they have no clue, and I asked the Steueramt too, where of course they suggested to send it in like this, and pay any bill they might send me. So I was wondering if someone here was in the same situation, and if you could enlighten me if normal tax is indeed that much more, or if I'm reading the numbers wrong, or if I filled it out wrong.

My monthly payslip with the quellensteuer and AHV looked pretty much like the ethz calculator suggested. So Quellensteuer for a year was 13500.
screenshot with the numbers here

And the provisional tax calculation was pretty much the same as the calculator on admin.ch. I added around +5K of deductions.
It says Cantonal tax 6400, Communal tax 7500, and Federal tax 3000. A total of around 17000, which is about 3500 more than the withholding tax paid over the year.
screenshot with the numbers here

Which would mean I'm getting a hefty bill at the end
Thanks for any insights!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19.02.2020, 21:39
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,657
Groaned at 433 Times in 330 Posts
Thanked 21,458 Times in 11,249 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Normal tax bill significantly more than withholding tax

Quote:
View Post
Hello,

Last year I finally broke 120K, my overtime pay pushed me over the limit where I have to do the normal tax declaration even though I'm paying withholding tax.

I was happy to do it, as I read here you'll probably get money back. At the end of the online tax form, they give you the provisional numbers, and I was quite surprised to see it's 3K more than the withholding tax I already paid. I live in Zurich.

I already went to my HR with this, and they have no clue, and I asked the Steueramt too, where of course they suggested to send it in like this, and pay any bill they might send me. So I was wondering if someone here was in the same situation, and if you could enlighten me if normal tax is indeed that much more, or if I'm reading the numbers wrong, or if I filled it out wrong.

My monthly payslip with the quellensteuer and AHV looked pretty much like the ethz calculator suggested. So Quellensteuer for a year was 13500.
screenshot with the numbers here

And the provisional tax calculation was pretty much the same as the calculator on admin.ch. I added around +5K of deductions.
It says Cantonal tax 6400, Communal tax 7500, and Federal tax 3000. A total of around 17000, which is about 3500 more than the withholding tax paid over the year.
screenshot with the numbers here

Which would mean I'm getting a hefty bill at the end
Thanks for any insights!
You need more expenses, it was assumed you had 15k at that salary, clearly 5k is too low
Travel to work
Lunch at work
Some health Insurance
some work clothes
3% training costs.

Zurich city has a higher tax rate than average.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 19.02.2020, 22:19
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,646
Groaned at 58 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 1,809 Times in 1,053 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Normal tax bill significantly more than withholding tax

Quote:
View Post

Zurich city has a higher tax rate than average.

and you would have been paying the average rate in the Quellensteuer.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Landers for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 20.02.2020, 09:38
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 106
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 53 Times in 33 Posts
erikdebest has no particular reputation at present
Re: Normal tax bill significantly more than withholding tax

As someone else already commented in another thread: Quellensteuer is a good deal - and it is indeed true under some conditions.

For example the work related deductions are a lumpsum of 10% of the income. So in the case of earning 120k, they deduct 12k for work related expenses (in your sheet it is only around 3k5).

City of Zurich has a higher tax (119%) rate than cantonal average (used for quellensteuer). You see that your "Gemeindesteuer" is therefore 1204 CHF higher than the "Kantonsteuer".

So yes, the numbers you calculated look right and you may expect that bill indeed.

best, Erik
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank erikdebest for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 21.02.2020, 21:29
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Ingsoc has no particular reputation at present
Re: Normal tax bill significantly more than withholding tax

Thank you for clearing it up.
This might be my most expensive lesson learned yet. And the least profitable overtime I ever did.

I'll try to piece some more deductions together, but this may be more or less all I have. I did eat of course, but I didn't have to buy anything significant for work, nor did I have training paid by myself. And the 5K is my health insurance + the public transportation.

Looks like all that's left is to marry, get into debt, or to donate 15K to the SVP
Do you know if I can at least deduct the Serafe bill? I didn't find any information on that, but it's suspicious, because it's mandatory. Not that it made a huge impact, but that could be a free pizza and a burger right there.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22.02.2020, 06:45
Mullhollander's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 2,579
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,608 Times in 1,586 Posts
Mullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Normal tax bill significantly more than withholding tax

Quote:
View Post
I'll try to piece some more deductions together, but this may be more or less all I have. I did eat of course, but I didn't have to buy anything significant for work, nor did I have training paid by myself. And the 5K is my health insurance + the public transportation.
Training: Ct. Zurich allows CHF 500 to be deducted for training without support.

Serafe fee: Serafe fee would not be tax deductible.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22.02.2020, 07:52
The_Love_Doctor's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zugerberg, Zug
Posts: 3,266
Groaned at 72 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 3,700 Times in 1,746 Posts
The_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Normal tax bill significantly more than withholding tax

Quote:
View Post

I'll try to piece some more deductions together, but this may be more or less all I have. I did eat of course, but I didn't have to buy anything significant for work, nor did I have training paid by myself. And the 5K is my health insurance + the public transportation.
Deductions are one way of optimizing your tax bill:
-> follow up on suggestions from others (e.g lump sum deduction for work, lunch allowance)
-> I would add 3rd pillar to that but please consider wider situations and alternatives for the 6k a year or so, as short term gain could be offset by cost of opportunity or taxes you may incur in other jurisdictions (e.g if you’re American)
-> consider paying a tax advisor, if your situation is not complicated this shouldn’t cost more than CHF200.- and will pay for itself as most likely you haven’t covered all bases. (If you like to DIY your tax you can copy paste from next year and adjust where needed but you should be 80-90% there)

Other ways are:
-> obvious one is moving Gemeinde or Kanton

Quote:
View Post

Looks like all that's left is to marry, get into debt, or to donate 15K to the SVP
That is not necessarily the case unless the person you get married to doesn’t earn any money.
It is a known fact that the combined tax bill of an unmarried “both working” couple is lower than that of a married “both working” couple - google “marriage penalty” or “Heiratsstrafe”
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22.02.2020, 09:33
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,657
Groaned at 433 Times in 330 Posts
Thanked 21,458 Times in 11,249 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Normal tax bill significantly more than withholding tax

Quote:
View Post
Thank you for clearing it up.
This might be my most expensive lesson learned yet. And the least profitable overtime I ever did.

I'll try to piece some more deductions together, but this may be more or less all I have. I did eat of course, but I didn't have to buy anything significant for work, nor did I have training paid by myself. And the 5K is my health insurance + the public transportation.

Looks like all that's left is to marry, get into debt, or to donate 15K to the SVP
Do you know if I can at least deduct the Serafe bill? I didn't find any information on that, but it's suspicious, because it's mandatory. Not that it made a huge impact, but that could be a free pizza and a burger right there.
There is also a deduction of about 3% of earnings, can't remember exactly but you can't just have 5k of deductions.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tax withheld significantly lower than tax due. Is this normal? clawhammer Finance/banking/taxation 2 06.04.2018 19:20
Will I get significantly better signal with Swisscom happyrobbie TV/internet/telephone 8 09.01.2014 13:23
5x Tax Bill - is it normal?? naza Finance/banking/taxation 14 07.11.2012 19:17
Has your 2009 dog tax increased significantly? meloncollie Pet corner 19 31.08.2009 12:56
neighbors pay significantly less rent ack424 Housing in general 16 06.02.2009 17:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:37.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0