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-   -   Quellensteuer plus normal tax (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/296981-quellensteuer-plus-normal-tax.html)

alizary 28.02.2020 23:11

Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
Hi everybody,

Quite basic questions probably, but I'm a newbie in this area, and hope for some clarification (sorry if it was already posted and discussed elsewhere - I didn't find anything related):

1. Till 2019 I was on a B permit and paid Quellensteuer at source (2019 including, less than 120K). In the beginning of this year 2020 I got a request to fill in a usual tax declaration for 2019, and I thought that's a good idea, as I might get some money back due to the opened 3a pillar (and some other deductions), and so I did. But now, I got a bill to pay (Provisorische Abrechnung for Bundessteuer), according to the calculations I have done and sent to them, and like I didn't pay any Quellensteuer..??? Is that really how it works? I will have to pay double amount (Quellensteuer and normal tax), in order to get a refund for overpay somewhere next year?? Or they missed the info about my taxes paid? There was no specific chapter in tax declaration, actually, to mention that I pay already at source, but shouldn't they have it already in the system? Can I just ignore the bill?)))

2. From Jan 2020 I am on C permit, but still get Quellensteuer deducted from my salary.. As far as I know, it shouldn't be the case any more..? Is it the matter of time and I should just wait, or is it me who has to inform all the offices about the permit change and getting a new tariff accordingly?

Many thx in advance!

Medea Fleecestealer 29.02.2020 08:57

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
2. Tell your employer you now have a C permit so they should stop deducting it, simple. They're not going to know your permit status has changed unless you tell them. Probably let the cantonal tax office know as well.

alizary 04.03.2020 10:39

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 3152511)
2. Tell your employer you now have a C permit so they should stop deducting it, simple. They're not going to know your permit status has changed unless you tell them. Probably let the cantonal tax office know as well.

Thank you for the reply. Yes, I informed our HR as soon as I noticed, but they said that an official request should come to them from the tax office, which I am surprised is not aware then (?). Just thought here in Switzerland this kind of info "automatically" spread to all important authorities by migration/Fremdenpolizei. But seems like not the case.. Will do.

roegner 04.03.2020 10:44

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alizary (Post 3153846)
Thank you for the reply. Yes, I informed our HR as soon as I noticed, but they said that an official request should come to them from the tax office, which I am surprised is not aware then (?). Just thought here in Switzerland this kind of info "automatically" spread to all important authorities by migration/Fremdenpolizei. But seems like not the case.. Will do.


Just send them a copy of your C permit, HR should than change the tax situation

alizary 04.03.2020 10:58

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3153851)
Just send them a copy of your C permit, HR should than change the tax situation

They have my permit copy, but they don't care. They clearly said they need an official request from tax office. Probably it has something to do with a fact that I live and work in different cities (Bern and Zurich).. But really strange anyway that HR can't manage it in "easy" way.

Enohzee 04.03.2020 10:58

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
As above, send your employer a scan of your C permit and they should take you off tax-at-source.

Tax at source that you've paid goes into your regular tax account, so you don't pay twice. Contact the tax office for advice. Is the bill for 2019 tax or is it a bill for current year tax (when you're not supposed to be on tax at source anymore)? It's very early to already have a bill for 2019 tax...

alizary 04.03.2020 11:23

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Enohzee (Post 3153859)
Tax at source that you've paid goes into your regular tax account, so you don't pay twice. Contact the tax office for advice. Is the bill for 2019 tax or is it a bill for current year tax (when you're not supposed to be on tax at source anymore)? It's very early to already have a bill for 2019 tax...

Yes, the bill is for 2019.. "Direct Bundessteuer 2019: provisorische Abrechnung". And yes, I was surprised first of all, they sent it at all (I mean the whole tax thing), as I was still on B (and all paid). But probably it's because I got my C mid December 2019, and that's why they decided to check.

Have it so early is another question.. The only guess I have - they made this bill based on Kurz Steuererklärung they requested right in December (sent to them in Jan), and have not seen my full tax declaration sent this year.. But what I do not really get at all - how come they do not see that I have this Quellensteuer paid???

alizary 04.03.2020 11:33

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Enohzee (Post 3153859)
Tax at source that you've paid goes into your regular tax account, so you don't pay twice. Contact the tax office for advice.

Seems like I really have to contact them (really hesitating, though), too much mess otherwise... Especially in case, that according my full tax declaration for that 2019 (and if right), I expect them to return me some money :D But now they made it in a way, that I have to pay twice - great :confused:

st2lemans 04.03.2020 11:45

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
When I went to normal tax (because I married a Swiss), my employer refunded me all of that year's quellensteur, NOT the tax office! ;)

Tom

alizary 04.03.2020 12:05

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 3153873)
When I went to normal tax (because I married a Swiss), my employer refunded me all of that year's quellensteur, NOT the tax office! ;)

Tom

Hm.. Not sure I understand how this works on a background, but I imagine your employer had to withdraw it back from tax office then....? As again, they would have tax paid twice by you, and what is likely not recommended :D

st2lemans 04.03.2020 12:33

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
I got the money, then I paid the tax bill some time later.

Thus, I only paid once.

Tom

nejc 04.03.2020 14:24

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
I got C few weeks ago.
A week later both my employer (into the office) and me (home) got a letter from (I need to check, was it Gemeinde or Tax office?) that since next month the employer need to stop doing Quellensteuer.

I am living in canton Luzern.

alizary 04.03.2020 14:44

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nejc (Post 3153945)
I got C few weeks ago.
A week later both my employer (into the office) and me (home) got a letter from (I need to check, was it Gemeinde or Tax office?) that since next month the employer need to stop doing Quellensteuer.

I am living in canton Luzern.

Finally! That's exactly the missing piece. Neither me, nor my HR got this letter.... So, I will request myself, I guess.

catandmouse 05.03.2020 10:31

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
I suspect that the problem may be that the OP lives and works in two different cantons. He's liable for tax in the canton where he lives but it's being paid to the canton where he works, because it's deducted at source. He probably needs some kind of indication from his canton of residence (probably from the tax office).

memihai 05.03.2020 11:19

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
easy

Based on estimated taxes you need to pay in advance cantonal taxes for the current year (2020) and in 2021 sends the direct Bundessteuer for 2020
Steueramt will then make the diffence between any advance payments and your tax duty based on Steuererklärung.


Quellensteuer is a different office than Steueramt.

Now for 2019 Steueramt has not received from Quellensteuer exactly how much you already paid as Quellensteuer with B Permit

alizary 06.03.2020 19:45

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by catandmouse (Post 3154312)
I suspect that the problem may be that the OP lives and works in two different cantons. He's liable for tax in the canton where he lives but it's being paid to the canton where he works, because it's deducted at source. He probably needs some kind of indication from his canton of residence (probably from the tax office).

Seems like this might be the case... I wrote to the local tax office in Bern (where I live), and the guy replied with "Die Universität Zürich hat die Quellensteuer bis 30. November 2019 noch nicht abgerechnet. Wir empfehlen Ihnen die direkte Bundessteuer 2019 zu überweisen." :eek: So either they didn't get the money, or this info is missing somewhere (if I got this message right, which I didn't, actually, at all) :msncrazy: I have sent him my lohnausweis now to prove that everything was paid, let's see....

alizary 06.03.2020 19:56

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by memihai (Post 3154342)
Based on estimated taxes you need to pay in advance cantonal taxes for the current year (2020) and in 2021 sends the direct Bundessteuer for 2020
Steueramt will then make the diffence between any advance payments and your tax duty based on Steuererklärung.

Yes, this would make sense, and I would understand, if they send me the bill for 2020, but so far it's only last year 2019, and nothing for this year or for "payments in advance" :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by memihai (Post 3154342)
Quellensteuer is a different office than Steueramt.

:eek: omg, even better....

Quote:

Originally Posted by memihai (Post 3154342)
Now for 2019 Steueramt has not received from Quellensteuer exactly how much you already paid as Quellensteuer with B Permit

But they should get it at some point from Quellensteuer office, or? Or it should be then taken from my tax declaration, they requested me to do. Weird, that they ask to declare, and then immediate ask you to pay, without even making an effort to look at the papers first... They know that everyone on B pays this tax automatically, why to stress it right away? :msnsarcastic:

user137 16.11.2020 12:19

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
slightly different thing, but also a mixed situation.

my partner had Quellensteuer until 2019 August, then from September onwards we are on a C permit, so regular taxation until end of October (she didn't work in Nov and Dec).

She got the QSt deducted alright, we got the papers this year that we need to file for her (also OK), then I filed her papers in October for 2019, where they conveniently just regarded the amounts earned from September to October - so in the end she ended up paying about double the taxes owed, not being able to deduct 3a either, and the Qst apparently can't be asked back as I did not file that paper until the end of March... (even though I applied for the extension before that date when the official papers came).

It's a frustrating situation, she ended up paying about 3000 francs more than what would've been justified. Is there really no way to do a retrospective reimbursement on QSt after the deadline of 31 March the following year has passed?!

aSwissInTheUS 16.11.2020 13:04

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by user137 (Post 3239533)
then from September onwards we are on a C permit, so regular taxation until end of October (she didn't work in Nov and Dec).

So she died :eek: or left Switzerland :confused: or got C revoked :eek::confused: If she was alive and in Switzerland with permit C she was also Nov and Dec on normal taxation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by user137 (Post 3239533)
(even though I applied for the extension before that date when the official papers came). [...] Is there really no way to do a retrospective reimbursement on QSt after the deadline of 31 March the following year has passed?!

There is no procedure how you could request an extension for QSt recalculation. There is also no form they would send but you have to get it from them ( https://www.zh.ch/de/steuern-finanze...-personen.html ) and send it back to the tax office before March 31st (Canton YH, other cantons other dates).

If you want to have success you must make it clear that you thought in case of switching to permit C and to regular taxation the whole calendar year will be regularly taxed. Unfortunately, it is publicly known and clearly stated in §10 Quellensteuerverordnung I of Canton ZH https://www.zh.ch/de/steuern-finanze...zstb-87-1.html that only from the month after one got permit C regular taxation is used.

Last straw if you are not successful with your plea is that the pro-rata income is more than 120k/year in which case regular taxation applies.

user137 16.11.2020 13:49

Re: Quellensteuer plus normal tax
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 3239550)
So she died :eek: or left Switzerland :confused: or got C revoked :eek::confused: If she was alive and in Switzerland with permit C she was also Nov and Dec on normal taxation.

She was on normal taxation alright, I just said she didn't work, so no income :) sorry for the confusion.

Quote:

There is no procedure how you could request an extension for QSt recalculation. There is also no form they would send but you have to get it from them ( https://www.zh.ch/de/steuern-finanze...-personen.html ) and send it back to the tax office before March 31st (Canton YH, other cantons other dates).

If you want to have success you must make it clear that you thought in case of switching to permit C and to regular taxation the whole calendar year will be regularly taxed. Unfortunately, it is publicly known and clearly stated in §10 Quellensteuerverordnung I of Canton ZH https://www.zh.ch/de/steuern-finanze...zstb-87-1.html that only from the month after one got permit C regular taxation is used.
I know the law is not on my side, and now knowing is not an excuse. Still, it's pretty frustrating in an otherwise very flexible taxation system.

Quote:

Last straw if you are not successful with your plea is that the pro-rata income is more than 120k/year in which case regular taxation applies.
this one doesn't apply unfortunately (if she had had this condition before, she would've filed regularly already).


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