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  #321  
Old 21.08.2020, 00:41
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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like a Haus am See
Actually, I’ve sold quite a lot of shares, minimal profit mostly as I‘m an impatient bugger. I’ve only sold Tesla once and made 20k as I love the concept and like to hold until I need cash, the next selling of Tesla will be to buy a small house outright. I swear TSLA stock trading is much more profitable than selling drugs and you don’t get all those people traipsing in your house too.
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  #322  
Old 21.08.2020, 00:42
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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I swear TSLA trading is much more profitable than selling drugs and you don’t get all those people traipsing in your house too.
mind you, the same things were (and still are) said about BTC.
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  #323  
Old 21.08.2020, 00:50
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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That is true tbf. Although I would still question why you would sell that stock as opposed to another one if there was an urgent need for cash. Perhaps some people don't agonise over investing decisions in the way I do (and being quite a lot younger than most of the other investors on here seem to be, I don't have nearly as much floating around).

In any case, congrats to Hausamsee for his big gain.
Thanks mate, there’s always an urgent need for cash the way I roll... TSLA has become 80% of my portfolio accidentally really, I just couldn’t stop. Nothing else is as good at the moment, just cried in buying as it was always interesting. Normally I trade Ark and lithium/precious metals and anything robot but I don’t like trading to preoccupy me too much so going long and heavy suits me with Tesla.
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  #324  
Old 21.08.2020, 09:36
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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It is. I made a lot out of TSLA so it's not like I just blub on about a bubble like you, I only invest in stocks I have a deep interest in and research by enthusiasm more than to capitalize from them, though I always profit in that state of mind.
And please clarify, isn't investing about gaining assets in the end or do you have the smart answer?
"It is" worth infinity bucks?

You're obviously very proud of yourself at the moment, and well done on making some money.

There's no need to make ridiculous statements though. I'd love to know your "research" on tesla and how you think you predicted the current events!

P.S. You are not investing, you are speculating
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  #325  
Old 21.08.2020, 10:34
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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"It is" worth infinity bucks?

You're obviously very proud of yourself at the moment, and well done on making some money.

There's no need to make ridiculous statements though. I'd love to know your "research" on tesla and how you think you predicted the current events!

P.S. You are not investing, you are speculating
There’s no need to make stupid statements. My research included a visit to Tesla in California last year and I have an X although you only have to drive one to know it’s far superior to anything else.

And as for being ‘very proud of myself’ why don’t you mind what you say, I am in a business that has virtually been wiped out, so more relieved that this went well.
I am proud though that the reason I cashed out once earlier was to help someone else who (in business) was where I am now, not doing well.

Get some perspective.
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  #326  
Old 21.08.2020, 10:50
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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There’s no need to make stupid statements. My research included a visit to Tesla in California last year and I have an X although you only have to drive one to know it’s far superior to anything else.

And as for being ‘very proud of myself’ why don’t you mind what you say, I am in a business that has virtually been wiped out, so more relieved that this went well.
I am proud though that the reason I cashed out once earlier was to help someone else who (in business) was where I am now, not doing well.

Get some perspective.
That's fine, you can be proud of yourself. It's a good thing. I also love Tesla cars. Clearly you have an exceptional level of engineering and speculation expertise and are able to judge, from a visit to a car factory, how the price of that company stock will move in the following months. Just be careful of the "outcome bias" demon... it's a strong one!

But you should also be careful with statements like "It will never be in a bubble". It's clearly a false statement. Others can be persuaded by your evidence-lacking statements and make a big error with their own money.

Thanks for the groan though.
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  #327  
Old 21.08.2020, 11:44
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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That's fine, you can be proud of yourself. It's a good thing. I also love Tesla cars. Clearly you have an exceptional level of engineering and speculation expertise and are able to judge, from a visit to a car factory, how the price of that company stock will move in the following months. Just be careful of the "outcome bias" demon... it's a strong one!

But you should also be careful with statements like "It will never be in a bubble". It's clearly a false statement. Others can be persuaded by your evidence-lacking statements and make a big error with their own money.

Thanks for the groan though.
You deserved it but a fair enough reply, so a greeny for that. There are a number of other share stocks lurking too that will be very interesting, all connected with EVs and solar energy. Once TSLA reaches 500 (after the split), I’ll sell most and move on.
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  #328  
Old 21.08.2020, 11:45
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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You deserved it but a fair enough reply, so a greeny for that. There are a number of other share stocks lurking too that will be very interesting, all connected with EVs and solar energy. Once TSLA reaches 500 (after the split), I’ll sell most and move on.
Oh, thankyou so much Sir, I did deserve it didn't I, I'm such a naughty boy!

Anyway, back to comparing penis sizes, friends!
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  #329  
Old 21.08.2020, 11:56
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

My worries would be that cars don't have a particularly favourable price elasticity.

Many people will spend 1000 CHF rather than 500 to get a nice iphone rather than a cheapy phone. However, im not sure quite so many would spend 50k chf rather than 25k (or 100k instead of 50k) to get a shiny new car. That makes me a bit worried about the potential for the type of profits Tesla need to justify such a big share price.

I don't actually drive though, so my position is not a particularly well informed one (it never is!).
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  #330  
Old 21.08.2020, 12:02
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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My worries would be that cars don't have a particularly favourable price elasticity.

Many people will spend 1000 CHF rather than 500 to get a nice iphone rather than a cheapy phone. However, im not sure quite so many would spend 50k chf rather than 25k (or 100k instead of 50k) to get a shiny new car. That makes me a bit worried about the potential for the type of profits Tesla need to justify such a big share price.

I don't actually drive though, so my position is not a particularly well informed one (it never is!).
And battery packs and solar systems? What’s your view on those aspects of Tesla?

https://www.reuters.com/companies/TSLA.O

And cars with innovative features for example
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  #331  
Old 21.08.2020, 12:39
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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My worries would be that cars don't have a particularly favourable price elasticity.

Many people will spend 1000 CHF rather than 500 to get a nice iphone rather than a cheapy phone. However, im not sure quite so many would spend 50k chf rather than 25k (or 100k instead of 50k) to get a shiny new car. That makes me a bit worried about the potential for the type of profits Tesla need to justify such a big share price.

I don't actually drive though, so my position is not a particularly well informed one (it never is!).
i also wouldn't pay 50k vs 25k (i rarely drive). but the question is whether (and how long until) tesla can reduce costs to lower than traditional cars and therefore become competitive on price too.
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  #332  
Old 21.08.2020, 12:44
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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i also wouldn't pay 50k vs 25k (i rarely drive). but the question is whether (and how long until) tesla can reduce costs to lower than traditional cars and therefore become competitive on price too.
Tesla is now what the iPhone was in 2007. It's a different ballgame and it just gets better (self driving, OTA updates, etc). The buyers are not price sensitive so they are happy to pay the premium. They don't need to compete with VW as Apple never competed with Nokia either.

The question is if they can outgrow their aggressive expansion and start generating cash. That, today, is not the case and the cheaper they sell their cars, the less it can happen.

Cheap cars is a race to the bottom. Tesla is a paradigm shift. Will ultimately be a battery tech + self driving software business, I believe.
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  #333  
Old 21.08.2020, 13:13
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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Tesla is now what the iPhone was in 2007. It's a different ballgame and it just gets better (self driving, OTA updates, etc). The buyers are not price sensitive so they are happy to pay the premium. They don't need to compete with VW as Apple never competed with Nokia either.

The question is if they can outgrow their aggressive expansion and start generating cash. That, today, is not the case and the cheaper they sell their cars, the less it can happen.

Cheap cars is a race to the bottom. Tesla is a paradigm shift. Will ultimately be a battery tech + self driving software business, I believe.
i think tsla has some similarities to amzn and appl from a company point of view.

however, tesla ARE doing a lot to cut costs. they're innovating on manufacturing and of course batteries are getting cheaper and cheaper. i would expect huge margin improvements on their model Y.

i expect EVs could be cheaper (to manufacture) than ICEs within the next 5 years.

i think it will eventually be a car component supplier (batteries, drive chain, software), car manufacturer and energy company.

Last edited by Phil_MCR; 21.08.2020 at 16:12.
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  #334  
Old 21.08.2020, 13:20
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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And battery packs and solar systems? What’s your view on those aspects of Tesla?

https://www.reuters.com/companies/TSLA.O

And cars with innovative features for example
This is CH with large disposable income to buy 50K+ cars. Monthly data (PW-Zulassungen nach Modellen) from https://www.auto.swiss/#statistics



So 30% of 2019 sales until ~60% of the year (July). They have to sell another 4K Model 3 until end of the year only to match last year sales. Of course, all other auto companies are more or less in the same troubles. But that's a reason to stay away from investing in auto manufacturers.

I have no interest on Tesla from the finance side but I'm following it on CH for professional reasons. I'm curious at the 15K cars Tesla have already sold in CH. Eventually, they need to be scrapped and the environmental and economical challenge are huge. We pay the recycling cost of a computer or a TV when we buy them, so far there's no money in place to recycle electric cars and this will cost a lot more that recycling an old laptop. The first model S is from 2013.....the clock is ticking for troubles, great news for engineering consultants
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  #335  
Old 21.08.2020, 15:52
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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And battery packs and solar systems? What’s your view on those aspects of Tesla?

https://www.reuters.com/companies/TSLA.O

And cars with innovative features for example
I'd be worried that this is really quite a competitive area also - not to dampen their achievements, but the share price is something special and I just don't really see it.
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  #336  
Old 21.08.2020, 15:55
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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i also wouldn't pay 50k vs 25k (i rarely drive). but the question is whether (and how long until) tesla can reduce costs to lower than traditional cars and therefore become competitive on price too.
But what's stopping premium car makes producing similar electric cars that are also desirable (even if a bit less so than tesla).

I think there is more strength in the existing car brands than their was in the phone brands extant in 2007 (after all, many people still didn't have a mobile or had only had a mobile for a couple of years at that point).

I'd love to be proved wrong about all of this, as i hold about £20k - which is quite a lot for me (im only 31), and have never sold.
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  #337  
Old 21.08.2020, 16:21
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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But what's stopping premium car makes producing similar electric cars that are also desirable (even if a bit less so than tesla).

I think there is more strength in the existing car brands than their was in the phone brands extant in 2007 (after all, many people still didn't have a mobile or had only had a mobile for a couple of years at that point).

I'd love to be proved wrong about all of this, as i hold about £20k - which is quite a lot for me (im only 31), and have never sold.
It's a paradigm change for a reason. Premium brands don't have battery capacity nor the software needed. Their supply chain is disparate into dozens and dozens of suppliers and don't control HW and SW in one hand (also see: Apple). Even if BMW did make a 400km EV (which would be super expensive), they don't have autopilot and nowhere to charge the thing properly - although the latter infra is slowly developing also in Germany.

You own 20k what? TSLA? And at what price levels did you buy?
Google://Stop Loss and you can sleep relaxed.
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  #338  
Old 21.08.2020, 17:05
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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It's a paradigm change for a reason. Premium brands don't have battery capacity nor the software needed. Their supply chain is disparate into dozens and dozens of suppliers and don't control HW and SW in one hand (also see: Apple). Even if BMW did make a 400km EV (which would be super expensive), they don't have autopilot and nowhere to charge the thing properly - although the latter infra is slowly developing also in Germany.

You own 20k what? TSLA? And at what price levels did you buy?
Google://Stop Loss and you can sleep relaxed.
Probably an average of about 500. I could live with it going back down to that.
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  #339  
Old 21.08.2020, 18:27
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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Probably an average of about 500. I could live with it going back down to that.
So? Set a stop loss at 1800 and then your profits are safe. Everything else is free money
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  #340  
Old 21.08.2020, 20:48
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Re: Markets down - Invest now or wait further?

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So? Set a stop loss at 1800 and then your profits are safe. Everything else is free money
It's all in trusts and funds. Especially SMT and Bailie Gifford Positive Change, but also a couple of others.
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