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  #21  
Old 21.04.2020, 14:46
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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Just wondering why petrol still costs >1.40 chf in Switzerland with these oil prices...

If you look at the cost structure there, you will be surprised how small the oil price contribution is.
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  #22  
Old 21.04.2020, 15:16
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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I used the serious word to point out that you are just buying a financial product that could be called a derivative as well (pretty much to me it is the same as a linear derivative). If I have access to a market I don't see why you want to buy a 3rd party financial product that invests in stocks (run by money managers) rather than buying the stocks directly or working with a stock advisor.
Paying the very low expense ratio of a broad index based ETF instead of paying a stock advisor is generally considered one of the big bonuses of ETFs. But to each there own. If you can find a flat fee advisor, that is a good option, but there aren't many of those that I know of.

If you can buy and sell your own stocks AND not pay the buy/sell fees AND spend significant time monitoring and balancing AND not pay the taxes of trading too often, than that is impressive but it is a level of involvement I have no interest in. I have other hobbies of more interest. Started the guitar during this pandemic and I am quite horrible at it.
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  #23  
Old 21.04.2020, 15:19
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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There is no evidence that Buffet was behind the paltry $25 million invested in the S&P 500 EFT trackers you mention, he generally goes for bigger punts. That's even tiny change for Ted & Todd's 14 Billion fund's. Something for an insurance subsidiary would be my guess.

“In our view, however, derivatives are financial weapons of mass destruction, carrying dangers that, while now latent, are potentially lethal,” wrote Buffett in Berkshire Hathaway's (BRK-A, BRK-B) 2002 annual letter.
Perhaps avoid taking a quote out of context next time, he was talking about collateralised loans like MBS and other xBS. The complete paragraph reads:
"Charlie and I believe Berkshire should be a fortress of financial strength – for the sake of our owners, creditors, policyholders and employees. We try to be alert to any sort of megacatastrophe risk, and that posture may make us unduly apprehensive about the burgeoning quantities of long-term derivatives contracts and the massive amount of uncollateralized receivables that are growing alongside. In our view, however, derivatives are financial weapons of mass destruction, carrying dangers that, while now latent, are potentially lethal."

So the bottom line is that you provide no substantiation, the onus is still on you.

But I'm Ok with cutting thinghs short. You may remember his $1mln bet against hedge fund managers, with Protegé the only one taking him up on it. His summary in the 2017 Letter to shareholders (LtS) after the bet was over was:
"I made the bet for two reasons:
(1) to leverage my outlay of $318,250 into a disproportionately larger sum that – if things turned out as I expected – would be distributed in early 2018 to Girls Inc. of Omaha; and
(2) to publicize my conviction that my pick – a virtually cost-free investment in an unmanaged S&P 500 index fund – would, over time, deliver better results than those achieved by most investment professionals, however well-regarded and incentivized those “helpers” may be."

And if that's not enough look up his comments on Jack Bogle, founder of Vanguard and its CEO until some 20 years ago. In his 2016 LtS Buffett wrote
"If a statue is ever erected to honor the person who has done the most for American investors, the handsdown choice should be Jack Bogle. For decades, Jack has urged investors to invest in ultra-low-cost index funds. [...] In his early years, Jack was frequently mocked by the investment-management industry. Today, however, he has the satisfaction of knowing that he helped millions of investors realize far better returns on their savings than they otherwise would have earned. He is a hero to them and to me."
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  #24  
Old 21.04.2020, 15:28
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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Perhaps avoid taking a quote out of context next time, he was talking about collateralised loans like MBS and other xBS. The complete paragraph reads:
"Charlie and I believe Berkshire should be a fortress of financial strength – for the sake of our owners, creditors, policyholders and employees. We try to be alert to any sort of megacatastrophe risk, and that posture may make us unduly apprehensive about the burgeoning quantities of long-term derivatives contracts and the massive amount of uncollateralized receivables that are growing alongside. In our view, however, derivatives are financial weapons of mass destruction, carrying dangers that, while now latent, are potentially lethal."

So the bottom line is that you provide no substantiation, the onus is still on you.

But I'm Ok with cutting thinghs short. You may remember his $1mln bet against hedge fund managers, with Protegé the only one taking him up on it. His summary in the 2017 Letter to shareholders (LtS) after the bet was over was:
"I made the bet for two reasons:
(1) to leverage my outlay of $318,250 into a disproportionately larger sum that – if things turned out as I expected – would be distributed in early 2018 to Girls Inc. of Omaha; and
(2) to publicize my conviction that my pick – a virtually cost-free investment in an unmanaged S&P 500 index fund – would, over time, deliver better results than those achieved by most investment professionals, however well-regarded and incentivized those “helpers” may be."

And if that's not enough look up his comments on Jack Bogle, founder of Vanguard and its CEO until some 20 years ago. In his 2016 LtS Buffett wrote
"If a statue is ever erected to honor the person who has done the most for American investors, the handsdown choice should be Jack Bogle. For decades, Jack has urged investors to invest in ultra-low-cost index funds. [...] In his early years, Jack was frequently mocked by the investment-management industry. Today, however, he has the satisfaction of knowing that he helped millions of investors realize far better returns on their savings than they otherwise would have earned. He is a hero to them and to me."
Then why did Buffet chose 'Vanguard 500 Index Fund Admiral Shares' a mutual fund & not a Vanguard EFT?
I am still waiting for a quote from Buffet that states EFT fund, if one existed I am sure you would have presented it.
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  #25  
Old 21.04.2020, 15:35
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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Paying the very low expense ratio of a broad index based ETF instead of paying a stock advisor is generally considered one of the big bonuses of ETFs. But to each there own. If you can find a flat fee advisor, that is a good option, but there aren't many of those that I know of.

If you can buy and sell your own stocks AND not pay the buy/sell fees AND spend significant time monitoring and balancing AND not pay the taxes of trading too often, than that is impressive but it is a level of involvement I have no interest in. I have other hobbies of more interest. Started the guitar during this pandemic and I am quite horrible at it.
I know flat fee advisors and very successful in this business (25+ years of experience). Fees using a discount broker, like Interactive Brokers, they are next to nothing.

Trading too often you pay taxes? How? In Switzerland there is no capital gain tax and with a stock advisor you will buying and selling every 3-4 months on average not every day.

Don't want to spend time on following your investments that's fine but investors that don't know the holdings of the ETF they are invested in these I call them not serious. Looking at the ETF holdings require time perhaps more time that looking at the stocks directly because many times you will have questions why the money manager does this or that.

Ok I am writing these as a debate. Any investor will do whatever he prefers.
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  #26  
Old 21.04.2020, 17:13
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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Then why did Buffet chose 'Vanguard 500 Index Fund Admiral Shares' a mutual fund & not a Vanguard EFT?
I am still waiting for a quote from Buffet that states EFT fund, if one existed I am sure you would have presented it.
It's your claim that he's absolutely utterly and unabashedly against ETFs. A claim that is completely unfounded and taken out of thin air.

The onus is on you.
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  #27  
Old 21.04.2020, 18:49
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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It's your claim that he's absolutely utterly and unabashedly against ETFs. A claim that is completely unfounded and taken out of thin air.

The onus is on you.
I have never said that!

Berkshire holds 25 million in EFT's v 128 BILLION in cash, clearly they are not an important investment instrument to him & when he personally made the decision he chose a Fidelity Mutual fund tracker over an EFT.
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Warren Buffet is not a fan of financial instruments, many EFT's are highly dangerous so I disagree. He would probably approve of an S&P 500 tracker, but he has never recommended EFT's in general.
Thats what I wrote when you replied
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Utter bullshit. It's the exact opposite.
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  #28  
Old 21.04.2020, 19:19
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

*ETF, not EFT
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  #29  
Old 21.04.2020, 20:27
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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*ETF, not EFT
Good old Dyslexia, I actually checked before that post.
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Old 21.04.2020, 21:21
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

What’s an ETF guys?

*ducks for cover*
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  #31  
Old 22.04.2020, 09:48
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

Interactive Brokers only lost $88 mil due to margin losses.
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  #32  
Old 22.04.2020, 09:56
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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Interactive Brokers only lost $88 mil due to margin losses.
IB will recover some of the losses from clients. I am sure other brokers will show similar losses if they offer futures trading.
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  #33  
Old 22.04.2020, 09:57
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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What’s an ETF guys?

*ducks for cover*
It's short for "this how poor folks' lives are screwed".
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  #34  
Old 22.04.2020, 10:03
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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It's short for "this how poor folks' lives are screwed".
Day traders watch out!
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  #35  
Old 22.04.2020, 10:10
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

Any quant around here? Looked for recent news about Glencore, but nothing came up.

I remember when I was looking for a job in 2017. Commodities trading companies where looking for scientists to make them traders. I wonder what happened to the ones that took the offers. Did the machine learning models could predict the negative price in oil futures?
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Old 22.04.2020, 10:53
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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Any quant around here? Looked for recent news about Glencore, but nothing came up.

I remember when I was looking for a job in 2017. Commodities trading companies where looking for scientists to make them traders. I wonder what happened to the ones that took the offers. Did the machine learning models could predict the negative price in oil futures?
surely anyone in the industry would have seen the negative price coming.
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  #37  
Old 22.04.2020, 10:57
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

So. I have a very laïc question, is AG still cheaper?
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Old 22.04.2020, 10:59
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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surely anyone in the industry would have seen the negative price coming.
I'd love to know the story behind, when did they knew and how?
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  #39  
Old 22.04.2020, 11:10
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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I'd love to know the story behind, when did they knew and how?
People stoped using their cars, weeks ago Warren Buffet said motor claims were hugely down, from the average of 10,000 new claims a day.
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  #40  
Old 23.04.2020, 10:14
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Re: So. Did anyone check the price of oil today?

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I have never said that!

Berkshire holds 25 million in EFT's v 128 BILLION in cash, clearly they are not an important investment instrument to him & when he personally made the decision he chose a Fidelity Mutual fund tracker over an EFT.


Thats what I wrote when you replied
Your quote on the financial WMDs was demonstrated wrong.

Except for the daily tradeability there's no material difference between an ETF with physical replication and a mutual fund as such. And given the absoluteness in your claim the purchase falsifies you. Of course you may keep repeating that it's not an ETF - in which case you'd still need to prove your claim that Buffett would never recommend ETF's.
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