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Old 29.04.2020, 23:00
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Re: lohnpfändung - minimum amount, family abroad

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It is not that I like or dislike what I hear. They are stating facts and I am fine with that, but sometimes it feels a little bit patronizing to hear: "You should pay your debts" or "This is not how things work here, you need to bring the documents"
I assure you, things work the same at my home country and I would still have to document everything
Look in the end you are your own boss and you can do with my opinion/advice whatever you please, what I however hope is that you do not rush into or even choose to file for bankruptcy and for that use money which you desperately need elsewhere. You want a 1.000,- extra for 4 months, and are willing to spend 4.000,- on that (could easily become more btw) which you actually don't have. It just makes no sense, you'd be better of trying whatever else like assembling Ikea furniture for people, or help with moving in the weekends and take cash. It's not legal or the smartest thing to have extra income and silence about it, but given your situation a couple of hundreds here and there sounds like a game changer. Maybe you even can talk with your employer about paying out holiday money or free days, or if overtime is an option and ask Betreibung if you can split such 50/50

Truth is that I do not care what you choose to do, but I think going for bankruptcy is the worst of your options.
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  #62  
Old 29.04.2020, 23:15
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Re: lohnpfändung - minimum amount, family abroad

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It is not that I like or dislike what I hear. They are stating facts and I am fine with that, but sometimes it feels a little bit patronizing to hear: "You should pay your debts" or "This is not how things work here, you need to bring the documents"
I don't think I've been patronising. I hope not, and I'm sorry if my posts have come across like that, to you.

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So far the process I have met in betriebungsamt didn't seem very "calculated"
Before the January I presented the documents, they were briefly looked on and I received calculation.
I can very well believe that that is how it seemed, to you. In fact, however, the officer would have picked out only a subset of your documents, namely those easily identifiable as ticking their boxes, and will have scrutinised only those. The rest, yes, would have been looked at only very briefly.

The success of any appeal lies in proving that any facts/expenses you present are relevant, and may perhaps not have been put into the initial calculation. That's why I keep suggesting that, now that you have the tools available, you actually compare that Excel with your method, so see if it is the same. I wonder what the result would be.

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I assure you, things work the same at my home country
From what you write here, I think that you have made assumptions that things here work the same as in your home country, and have further assumed what the information from the office did or did not mean, and this, as you now know, was to your own detriment.

If I were in your postion, I would be working on trying to find aspects to the rules about which expenses are acknowledged, and would be trying to demonstrate how each expense I'm claiming does, indeed,(even if it didn't seem that way during the first assessment) qualify as one of the points which should be taken into account for a re-assessment.

While you may well have the information together, it still seems to me that you have not understood the Swiss system. The point is not merely that you will have to document everything. That's only a part of it. The other part is presenting the documentation pre-sorted, structured according to the particular way things are done here, and to prove that expenses x, y and z also (according to the rules) ought also to be regarded, and with that present a line of argument in your appeal, that is plausible, according to the Swiss way of doing things. I wonder whether you did it that way.
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Old 29.04.2020, 23:41
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Re: lohnpfändung - minimum amount, family abroad

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Would you so easily tell your child : for this year you need to stop studying, you will lose a year, but well, tough luck.
Agreed, this would not be an easy thing to tell a young person. But if I had identified that this (family having moved to Italy so child could study in Italy, instead of the whole family having remained in Poland) was the central, or one of the key factors that was causing the budget to be so very strained, then yes, absolutely, I would tell that to the child.

This child is not in primary school, but presumably at least 16, or maybe 18. Breaking off their studies may be annoying, sad, or disappointing, etc. But they are old enough to understand an explanation properly given. If this young person's going without that one year's study (which is a crazy year anyway, due to Corona) and maybe the following year's study, would be the central or at least significant factor that could turn the family's financial situation around, then yes, that is the decision I think I, as the parent of not just that child but several others, might very well take.

This, especially if I had done all the calculations to compare the various scenarios. I would want to be in the position to explain the facts to the young person:
I'm sorry to have to do this to you, but I've made some poor decisions, and misunderstood some procedures. When I agreed that the family should move to Italy, I had made some assumptions about the way the costs and payments would work, which I've subsequently learned were erroneous. I am in debt. I've done the calculations, over and over, and I have realised that I need to shift our focus. Our priority as a family needs to be avoiding increasing the debt, and getting our finances back in order, as they used to be. We need to clear this debt, so that we can thereafter be free to start over.
  • If you, your mother and your siblings remain in Italy, and you keep studying there, you and they will not have enough to last each month. Not only would we have to live without a, b, and c, but I also run the risk of getting progressively deeper into debt, and the future becomes very uncertain.
  • If, on the other had, you all return to Poland, the monthly budget will drop by n Euros. This will enable the whole family to have enough to live on, with less worry and strain. I would be able to get this debt paid off by DATE.
After I have done that, I will help you to study.

Last edited by doropfiz; 30.04.2020 at 02:34.
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  #64  
Old 30.04.2020, 00:45
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Re: lohnpfändung - minimum amount, family abroad

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Sell it and come back where, when my family returns form Italy?
I already used up available family resources.
That is exactly what I am doing, trying to get over it as quickly as possible. I made steps to increase my salary significantly to cover additional expense and still bring more to the betraibung, and they dont care.
In addition it seems you miss something: If I earn extra on a side job I still have to bring it to the betreibung, since the collect all income so it changes nothing unless I try to hide it, which is illegal.
Sell the house (in Poland?) and later buy another or rent? Better than this situation surely? Alternatively could you get a bigger mortgage? If you have assets it seems mad to have gotten into this situation.

Getting a second job would make a massive difference, it changes the repayment term. If you get this over with in 18 months instead of 24, that's quite something.

You seem to think in a month by month way. You can't or you'll be in this situation forever. Problems like this are best tackled head on by long term thinking. For me that'd involve living off pasta and bread and taking two jobs.
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Old 30.04.2020, 09:23
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Re: lohnpfändung - minimum amount, family abroad

No worries, I won't file for bankrupcy.
As stated before: I am doing a side business that went up from 0 to around 10k CHF a month, but this money is not easily transferable for now as it goes into growth and maintenance. If i stop it now and do a side job it will go to waste, while I'll be able to get money out of it in about 4-5 months, so I am not siting and waiting.
I am thinking in terms of months because there are only 4 month that will be harder than usual.


Anyway, do any of you know about this case with kinderzulage? I believe I have found a document that confirms this is exempt from collection
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  #66  
Old 30.04.2020, 16:17
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Re: lohnpfändung - minimum amount, family abroad

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...I am doing a side business that went up from 0 to around 10k CHF a month, but this money is not easily transferable for now as it goes into growth and maintenance...
Ok so now you are claiming to make 19k per month between the two jobs and yet you can't come up with an extra 1k for 4 months? Sorry, I'm out.
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