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Old 18.05.2020, 15:09
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Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

I imagine anyone who's found themselves on the wrong side of the betreibungs process would feel this way of course, so I'm not here for the symphony.

However, I feel the process is fatally flawed. You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent in the whole process. Why even register rechtsvorschlag on my registry before the other party has even proven their case. Hiding the rechtsvorschlag from 3rd parties is no longer possible in my case, so that option is also.

The stated goal of the person/company raising the betreibungs against myself and family was to make sure I could never get a mortgage to build my house.

Has anyone had rechtsvorschlag on their registry and went to seek a mortgage from the bank? The whole thing is up to the scrutiny of the bank and they can decide for or against this being an issue, from what I understand.

Having moved to another canton the registry is clear here, however if they look at the previous canton I'm sure it will stick out like a sore thumb. It's not a conversation I relish having with the bank.

So I'd be happy to hear from someone who's had first-hand experience with a rechtsvorschlag on their record and seeking a mortgage. I can show excellent paying history for past 7 years of my rent, etc.. If that's helpful...
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Old 18.05.2020, 15:11
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

With most people it won´t get that far as they will oppose the Betreibung and sort it out then?
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Old 18.05.2020, 16:09
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

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With most people it won´t get that far as they will oppose the Betreibung and sort it out then?
The first step of opposing a Betreibung is a Rechtsvorschlag.

Second step is to wait.
Third step is to hide the Betreibung and Rechtsvorschlag which can only be done 3 months after the Betreibung. (A step which was not possible in the past )
Step four is to wait again as the other party seeking money must now act and start the due process to get Rechtsvorschlag sorted out. If they do the Betreibung will show up again.

It is not unheard of that some companies will do an unjust Betreibung where no money is owned just to screw with the other party.

@plm987sdf At what step of the Kafkaesque process are you right now.
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Old 18.05.2020, 16:11
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

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It is not unheard of that some companies will do an unjust Betreibung where no money is owned just to screw with the other party.
Even though it costs 100CHF to be a bitch, terrible.
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Old 18.05.2020, 16:24
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

In a recent renovation project, a neighbour claimed the dust blew onto his building and is now seeking damages from us to repaint the whole house. He doesn't have a chance as the building is 15 years old and never been maintained so he is trying it on.

In this instance instead of getting estimates then talking to us or sending a bill, he had an agressive (but not very good) lawyer issue an immediate processo esecutivo. We immediately made opposition and we are now waiting for the court to deal with it.

However, first we made an application to remortgage a property and had no problem at all. In fact i discussed it with the bank and they said they would only know about it if judgement goes against us and we don't pay.

Second, our lawyer informed us that if the claim is malicious or unjust, and the way they have acted, means if they lose we will have a case against them for damages.

So from what you describe, you may have a case against them later on.
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Old 18.05.2020, 16:29
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

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The first step of opposing a Betreibung is a Rechtsvorschlag.

Second step is to wait.
Third step is to hide the Betreibung and Rechtsvorschlag which can only be done 3 months after the Betreibung. (A step which was not possible in the past )
Step four is to wait again as the other party seeking money must now act and start the due process to get Rechtsvorschlag sorted out. If they do the Betreibung will show up again.
At this link is a sample letter to request that the Betreibung and Rechtsvorschlag be made not visible:

https://www.konsumentenschutz.ch/bet...chtbar-machen/
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Old 18.05.2020, 16:52
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

Have you tried leaving a severed horse's head under his duvet?
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Old 18.05.2020, 17:18
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

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The first step of opposing a Betreibung is a Rechtsvorschlag.

Second step is to wait.
Third step is to hide the Betreibung and Rechtsvorschlag which can only be done 3 months after the Betreibung. (A step which was not possible in the past )
Step four is to wait again as the other party seeking money must now act and start the due process to get Rechtsvorschlag sorted out. If they do the Betreibung will show up again.

It is not unheard of that some companies will do an unjust Betreibung where no money is owned just to screw with the other party.

@plm987sdf At what step of the Kafkaesque process are you right now.
I am at the process that the other party has filed their court papers. I could have hidden then, had I taken action earlier.. Or it would have meant they would have filed court papers earlier. Their claims are our nonsense; which are lawyer agree's with also. The other party stated on the phone to me that he will destroy my family and block all banks from ever giving me a loan. Unsure how that helps me, but it's unsettling, to say the least. This process is broken and the small refinements need more work. I am guilty by default until I prove myself innocent.
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Old 18.05.2020, 17:19
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

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At this link is a sample letter to request that the Betreibung and Rechtsvorschlag be made not visible:

https://www.konsumentenschutz.ch/bet...chtbar-machen/
Tried, denied due to the fact the other party has filed court papers. Which I didn't yet know when I sent it in... Could have done it a year ago..
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Old 18.05.2020, 17:49
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

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Could have done it a year ago..
You waited a year before you used Art. 8a Abs. 3 lit. d SchKG

Did you request more information according Art. 73 SchKG?
Do you intend to use Art. 85 or 85a SchKG?
Do you seek a negative declaratory judgment according Art. 88 ZPO?
Did you complain to the supervisory authority according Art. 17 SchKG?
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Old 25.05.2020, 15:28
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

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You waited a year before you used Art. 8a Abs. 3 lit. d SchKG

Did you request more information according Art. 73 SchKG?
Do you intend to use Art. 85 or 85a SchKG?
Do you seek a negative declaratory judgment according Art. 88 ZPO?
Did you complain to the supervisory authority according Art. 17 SchKG?
I have been given the possibility to complain as per Art. 17. I even started composing my letter.. Then I gave up.. I could ask my lawyer to do it, however I think I am past the point of no return... Company has filed court papers against me, so I doubt any complaints will work henceforth here.. Upon my next call with my lawyer, I will bring this topic up.. But I have mentally prepared myself for the talk with the bank....
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Old 25.05.2020, 15:42
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

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...Upon my next call with my lawyer, I will bring this topic up.. But I have mentally prepared myself for the talk with the bank....
Since you're already in a pickle with the first company, do be sure you understand your lawyer's fee structure and how much this is all going to cost you. Otherwise you'll be back again with a complaint about an outrageous bill for "a few phone calls" that you want to dispute.

This is not a criticism, by the way. I've seen it too many times here on EF where someone had an expectation of what "a few phone calls" would cost and had not discussed a maximum fee or anything. People have been stunned at the actual hours and amounts billed.
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Old 25.05.2020, 16:23
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

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Since you're already in a pickle with the first company, do be sure you understand your lawyer's fee structure and how much this is all going to cost you. Otherwise you'll be back again with a complaint about an outrageous bill for "a few phone calls" that you want to dispute.

This is not a criticism, by the way. I've seen it too many times here on EF where someone had an expectation of what "a few phone calls" would cost and had not discussed a maximum fee or anything. People have been stunned at the actual hours and amounts billed.
I understand that... As it stands, the bill is going to run into six figures for the whole claim... Still, the wife said we should just leave it and see what the bank says..
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Old 26.05.2020, 10:03
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

Having a single claim registered against you is less of an issue when applying for a mortgage with your "house"-bank, since they will have an overview of your financial situation. Moreover, one can explain the background of the dispute.

If on the other hand you have multiple entries from "serious" creditors (i.e. tax authorities, health insurance companies, etc.). Then the bank will be anxious since this would show actual liquidity issues.

In summary I would not overestimate the effect of a Betreibung when obtaining a mortgage (might be a bit different when trying to rent something).
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Old 26.05.2020, 10:12
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

The problem might be that in this particular case it is not the usual 1000 something franc debt but more in the range of several hundred thousands.
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Old 29.05.2020, 11:34
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Re: Unfair process of rechtsvorschlag/betreibungs...

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Having a single claim registered against you is less of an issue when applying for a mortgage with your "house"-bank, since they will have an overview of your financial situation. Moreover, one can explain the background of the dispute.

If on the other hand you have multiple entries from "serious" creditors (i.e. tax authorities, health insurance companies, etc.). Then the bank will be anxious since this would show actual liquidity issues.

In summary I would not overestimate the effect of a Betreibung when obtaining a mortgage (might be a bit different when trying to rent something).
That sounds good... Thanks for the info... This is just one claim and I can obtain a reference letter from my landlord of paying more for my rent than the mortgage and without any lateness for the past 8 years...
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