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Old 31.05.2020, 18:22
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Switch from UBS to...?

Apologies first and foremost, if the question has already been answered by others many times on here.

Myself and the Mrs are paying too much I think, to UBS just to keep our money, and giving us credit cards to use.

Having recently lived in places where fintech is kicking off, it baffles me that the Swiss (proud banking tradition ) are still stuck in the 90's and charging fees for account management, using another bank's ATM etc.

Anyway, get a free banking package from #BCGE from work. But also heard Raiffeisen is good in the long term if looking to get a mortgage.

Wanted to get your views on which one to switch to:
BCGE
Raiffeisen
Bank Cler
Any others?

Not a big user of credit cards. For the moment just need a simple joint account for salary/bills.

Merci!
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Old 31.05.2020, 18:44
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

I recommend bank cler, the online service works great, i pay only 2 sfr per month on fees.
My credit card is from cornercard.
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Old 31.05.2020, 20:19
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

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Having recently lived in places where fintech is kicking off, it baffles me that the Swiss (proud banking tradition ) are still stuck in the 90's and charging fees for account management, using another bank's ATM etc.
- Most of the fintech is just newbies with no experience trying to do the same thing that has been done before, the only new things about it is themselves! Of the four fintech companies I spoke with 12 months ago 3 donít exist today and the fourth is on it last legs. It is just the dotcom all over again.

- You canít make money if you give the product away and this free banking etc has turned the industry into a commodity one. So expect the recession to bring a consolidation across the industry and the reintroduction of fees, which are likely to be high as competition will have been eliminated. In ten years time youíll be grumbling about the size of the fee rather than the fact that one exists.
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Old 31.05.2020, 20:21
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

I would do the free offer.
Rule of thumb.
Dont have your salary account at the same bank as your mortgage.
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Old 31.05.2020, 20:30
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

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Rule of thumb.
Dont have your salary account at the same bank as your mortgage.
Would you mind expanding on this thought?
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Old 31.05.2020, 20:50
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

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I would do the free offer.
Rule of thumb.
Dont have your salary account at the same bank as your mortgage.
However that will be in breach of the T&C's in many cases
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Old 31.05.2020, 21:10
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

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Dont have your salary account at the same bank as your mortgage.
Also keen to know why

Free offer does sound good in that case.
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Old 31.05.2020, 21:15
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

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- Most of the fintech is just newbies with no experience trying to do the same thing that has been done before, the only new things about it is themselves! Of the four fintech companies I spoke with 12 months ago 3 donít exist today and the fourth is on it last legs. It is just the dotcom all over again.

- You canít make money if you give the product away and this free banking etc has turned the industry into a commodity one. So expect the recession to bring a consolidation across the industry and the reintroduction of fees, which are likely to be high as competition will have been eliminated. In ten years time youíll be grumbling about the size of the fee rather than the fact that one exists.
Basic facilities, like having a Visa/Mastercard based Debit Card, which can be used for online transactions, is a no-brainer.
Hence my moan, that Swiss banks are stuck in the past.
1) Cannot use a debit card for online shopping (Maestro? Lol!),
2) cannot withdraw cash from other Banks ATMs for free
3) Domestic interbank transfers are not instantaneous unless you pay a fee (groan!)
Pardon me for not being too overly enamored with these dinosaurs. These are basic tenants of 21st century banking.

If you want examples of Fintechs doing well, go and google Revolut and Transferwise.
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Old 01.06.2020, 10:11
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

Personally never use Maestro, but it is there if you want to use a debit card. And of course today there is Twint, a sort of cardless version of a debit card.
I don't pay for using ATMs anywhere in Switzerland, from any bank.
Whenever I've made a domestic bank transfer, it's instantaneous. Unlike the UK where it takes 3 days.
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Old 01.06.2020, 10:47
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

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Would you mind expanding on this thought?
If you should have a sudden loss of income. One really does not want the bank with the mortgage figuring it out and reacting upon it.
In any case insurance companies tend to have better mortgage conditions. Check out Axa if interested.
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Old 01.06.2020, 11:00
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

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Myself and the Mrs are paying too much I think, to UBS just to keep our money, and giving us credit cards to use.
Not that I think that UBS are the best bank around, but why do you have to pay anything? We have the UBS "Family" package and through their discounts and KeyClub points we bascially get the package for free. We get the discount for having more than 10k assets with them, and the rest we cover with KeyClub points we get from paying with the UBS card throughout the year.

The package includes current and saving accounts, and two pairs of MasterCard and Visa cards, and free withdrawals at all bankomats in Switzerland.

That being said, yes, banking in CH is a lot more expensive than other countries
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Old 01.06.2020, 14:48
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

I am just going to replace a Raiffeisen Mastercard with the free one from Coop.
Any negative experiences with coop? I chose the visa option as I already have a mastercard from Corner.

When traveling, I have more than once been saved by having 2-3 credit cards.

Our son organised an American Express Platinum free for a year but I cannot see that it is worth the fee.

We used to have our mortgage with Raiffeisen but since their troubles at the top, found the service which had been personal and good and flexible became rigid with our local office making verbal promises that then got culled from above.
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Old 01.06.2020, 15:48
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

The accecptance of the american express credit cards is more limited then mastercard or visa.
The platinum ae might be free for a year, but after that, it will cost a lot of money.
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  #14  
Old 01.06.2020, 16:20
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

I went from ZKB and UBS (wife) to Raiffeisen when they gave us what we thought was a nice mortgage package. Big mistake.

They were good and friendly the first few years, what with the free museum entrances and free tickets to the ski races.

Then we wanted to upgrade to a bigger house all the problems started. They forced us to sell the old place and wouldn't let us keep it and rent it out, even if the rent income would be about 3x the mortgage then (now probably 10 times). UBS and ZKB were happy to let us do it, but because we had a long term mortgage with Raiffeisen, it was impossible to switch banks without their crazy penalties (1% per month, = 12% per annum, yeah, should have read the fine print...). So we were forced to stay with them, and the service got worse and worse.

Finally, when we had the chance to move again, I needed a "bridge financing" (paying for a new place before getting money for the old place, which was already sold and payment secured by a bank guarantee) and they were clueless and then being difficult. So I told them what other banks were offering and they didn't even bother to counter-offer, and instead acted like I was in the wrong for shopping around. So I paid a small penalty (shorter term but still at the crazy interest rates), left and went to UBS and I could not be happier.

As Dandi posted, the UBS cost becomes practically free when you have a mortgage, family package, points, etc.

I still think about the first place that we were forced to sell with a huge regret - it's a 160m2, 5.5 room flat near the train station in Thalwil that could be rented out for at least 4k per month, for a mortgage of currently less than 7k per year. Damn you Raiffeisen!
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Old 02.06.2020, 10:00
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

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Whenever I've made a domestic bank transfer, it's instantaneous. Unlike the UK where it takes 3 days.

This is just completely wrong......The UK has had near instant interbank transfers 24x7, for some time now.


Bank transfers in Switzerland are not instantaneous. Unless you make them very early in the day, the money will not be received until the next working day.



UK is far ahead of Switzerland in terms of payments.
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Old 02.06.2020, 11:45
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

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Basic facilities, like having a Visa/Mastercard based Debit Card, which can be used for online transactions, is a no-brainer.
Hence my moan, that Swiss banks are stuck in the past.
1) Cannot use a debit card for online shopping (Maestro? Lol!),
2) cannot withdraw cash from other Banks ATMs for free
3) Domestic interbank transfers are not instantaneous unless you pay a fee (groan!)
Pardon me for not being too overly enamored with these dinosaurs. These are basic tenants of 21st century banking.

If you want examples of Fintechs doing well, go and google Revolut and Transferwise.
1) I'd never use a debit card for online shopping. Too risky if data is compromised and no buyer protection. A credit card is like a firewall to your money. If anything goes wrong, block it or ask the bank to fight the seller for you, move on with your life. Check other threads about nightmarish online shopping.

2) Cash? Switzerland? I've only been to an ATM this year to withdraw Euros for a trip to Milano and deposit the remaining cash after the trip Free cash withdrawals from other banks' ATMs is cool to have, but cash is not that useful anymore. You can pay anywhere with a card, twint or by invoice. Payment by invoice is 1 month credit for free.

3) Domestic interbank transfers: I'd guess it's sad if the landlord receives the rent money 1 day later. Family is not around here, so the utility of instant payments is limited. Curiously, payments to the other side of the Atlantic are processed on the same day if the payment is ordered before 11h00 (local time).

As Jim2007 mentioned above, it's a tough time for Fintech. I just hope we're not interacting with Revolut/Transferwise marketing people.
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Old 02.06.2020, 12:19
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

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Whenever I've made a domestic bank transfer, it's instantaneous. Unlike the UK where it takes 3 days.
I have accounts at PostFinance, at Lloyds UK and at a US credit union. BACS transfers (CHAPS too, but you pay big bucks for that and would only use them for major transfers) are instantaneous up to a daily limit. PostFinance (and BCV when I had it, they got rid of me b/c of my US connection and were ecstatic when I paid off my mortgage) execute normal transfers the next day. (Actually I tend to order Lloyds transfers for the next day in case I change my mind or find I made s mistake). I don't get US bank transfer privileges because it's not free. My Fideltiy account, Amex, Chase and others will transfer money back and forth automatically to pay bills or refund credits. Take a day or two to clear.
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Old 02.06.2020, 18:10
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

Neon. Hands down the best bank right now.



Absolutely zero cost, free Mastercard, everything on the app. No foreign exchange fees for purchases on the card (I've tried it compared with UBS, and yes, no exchange fees at all, following the interbank rate)
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Old 02.06.2020, 18:48
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

Free, mobile only accounts:

www.neon-free.ch
Bank Cler ZAK



Free account + maestro if you have at least 25k in assets:
CA Next Bank


Free account if you have some assets (there are 3 levels for individual account sets) (+ maestro):
BCV


Free Credit card:
CashBack-card
Migros Cumulus
Coop Supercard
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  #20  
Old 03.06.2020, 16:25
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Re: Switch from UBS to...?

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Also keen to know why

Free offer does sound good in that case.

In the UK, a bank cannot cancel an existing mortage as long as the debtor pays the interest rates. Contrary in Switzerland, a bank has the right to cancel a mortage anytime they think the debtor cannot afford the property in the near future due to loss of income (unemployment, retirement, divorce, sickness, ...). In such cases a distress sale of the property is often the consquence....
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