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Old 07.06.2020, 13:10
Ros Ros is offline
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German VAT return over CHF300,-

Morning!

Being new to Basel and due to Corona very limited in experience with cross-border shopping, but as borders are opening up again soon, I have a few questions concerning VAT:

1. If an online store charges you the German VAT because you are using a packingstation in Weil am Rhein (LAS-burg/Swiss Packet/etc) and does not return your VAT, is there another way of getting the VAT back?
~ we use a german shipping address

2. If you do not get the VAT back, and take the >CHF300,- across the border, will I also have to pay Swiss VAT? Essentially paying the VAT in two countries...

3. Does Galaxus.DE doe VAT returns? I read in their statements that galaxus.CH does, but that .DE does not?

4. Can you use Global Blue in Weil am Rhein to give the VAT from Galaxus back? And off course, then paying the Swiss VAT at the border; don't wanna piss off anyone


We have gone shopping in Germany, but usually for under 300,- per person, and if there's an actual store that gives your VAT back or a discount on the next purchase it shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks!
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Old 07.06.2020, 13:24
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

1. It is the store which has to refund VAT (somtimes using the help of a third party wich pockets a part of the refund). If they do not offer this service (themseves or through third party), they do not offer this service. Period.

2. Yes. But the limit is CHF 300 net. That is roughly € 324 gross, if purchased in Germany with 19% VAT. (Exchange rates used by custom http://www.pwebapps.ezv.admin.ch/app...dex.php?lang=1 )
Also Swiss VAT has to be paid on the net value only.

3. No they dont't. https://www.galaxus.de/en/wiki/5589

4. That won't work as it is the store which offers VAT refund. They might do it themselves or use the help of a third party provider which pocket a lot of the refund.
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Old 07.06.2020, 13:34
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

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1. It is the store which has to refund VAT (somtimes using the help of a third party wich pockets a part of the refund). If they do not offer this service (themseves or through third party), they do not offer this service. Period.
I always wondered, if a store that accepts your order with a Swiss billing address has the right not to deal with VAT reimbursement or they have to reimburse you? Looks like it's no from your answer. Do you have some link by chance?

I am also curious is the same applies for Italy or not
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Old 07.06.2020, 13:43
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

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I always wondered, if a store that accepts your order with a Swiss billing address has the right not to deal with VAT reimbursement or they have to reimburse you? Looks like it's no from your answer. Do you have some link by chance?
I can not give you a linke to something which does not exists (the right of the foreign customer to demand a VAT refund from a German shop after the goods have been exported).
If there were such a right you would find it in these two documents:
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ustg_1980/
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ustdv_1980/
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Old 07.06.2020, 15:01
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

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I can not give you a linke to something which does not exists (the right of the foreign customer to demand a VAT refund from a German shop after the goods have been exported).
If there were such a right you would find it in these two documents:
Well, there might be some links around confirming the fact that stores have a choice. I did not demand a law that says that customer has a right, was just curious if you know about any discussion (authoritative or anecdotal) on that topic.

By the way, inspired by this thread and Sunday procrastination, I finally googled deep enough to solve this doubt for Italy: customer indeed has the right to obtain the electronic invoice for export and receive the reimbursement, and the store can not deny it.
Another doubt I had and that is coincidentally mentioned in that link: customer has the right to demand the "normal" procedure whether the reimbursement comes directly from the store, instead of using third party companies (e.g. tax blue). In more than one occasion stores said to me that using third party is the only way they do VAT refund (and I hated the experience dealing with those companies) - next time I know what to answer

Both are covered here: https://www.adm.gov.it/portale/docum...7-44e0eb419834
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Old 07.06.2020, 15:15
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

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I always wondered, if a store that accepts your order with a Swiss billing address has the right not to deal with VAT reimbursement or they have to reimburse you? Looks like it's no from your answer. Do you have some link by chance?

I am also curious is the same applies for Italy or not
Have a look at the Marks and Spencer Swiss Internet shop. Their price to Swiss Residents is the full UK retail price, including UK VAT, plus the Swiss 7.7% VAT converted at a pretty awful exchange rate. The only benefit you get is not having to deal with Swiss customs.

It’s up to the shop to decide their prices.

And don’t think they are actually paying the country of origin VAT, because they don’t.
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Old 07.06.2020, 15:29
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

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Have a look at the Marks and Spencer Swiss Internet shop. Their price to Swiss Residents is the full UK retail price, including UK VAT, plus the Swiss 7.7% VAT converted at a pretty awful exchange rate. The only benefit you get is not having to deal with Swiss customs.

It’s up to the shop to decide their prices.

And don’t think they are actually paying the country of origin VAT, because they don’t.
Interesting, so you're saying that are just adding UK VAT to the net price? Seems borderline illegal, but since I am not familiar with UK laws and how it might be different for online stores, I can't say for sure.

Not sure if you meant "It’s up to the shop to decide their prices." in the context of that specific store or as an universally true statement. But in the latter case, it is not true and I can make a counter example: take a example of a physical store in Italy. If you walk in an Italian electronic store and you see a 200 euro camera on a shelf (including VAT), the moment you take it in your hand and walk to the checkout you are guaranteed to pay it 164 euro, because:
- the store can not avoid selling you the camera at 200 euros (including VAT), it would be violation of public offer
- the store can not avoid giving you back 36 euros of VAT once you export the camera (as per link I mentioned in the previous post).
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Old 07.06.2020, 16:43
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

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Interesting, so you're saying that are just adding UK VAT to the net price? Seems borderline illegal, but since I am not familiar with UK laws and how it might be different for online stores, I can't say for sure.
No, they are not giving you a refund of a product sold in the UK (they don't have a Swiss store, they have a UK store with Swiss prices for Swiss residents. And they make you pay the Swiss Duties to them and if needed they'll handle that for you.

Perfectly legal and normal.
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Old 07.06.2020, 18:11
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

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No, they are not giving you a refund of a product sold in the UK (they don't have a Swiss store, they have a UK store with Swiss prices for Swiss residents. And they make you pay the Swiss Duties to them and if needed they'll handle that for you.

Perfectly legal and normal.
I see - in this case I think this internet store example is not suitable for the OP situation and my question because it is shipping to Switzerland - the question is about stores that ship to their "normal" country (in EU) and the customer exporting that personally
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Old 07.06.2020, 18:42
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

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By the way, inspired by this thread and Sunday procrastination, I finally googled deep enough to solve this doubt for Italy: customer indeed has the right to obtain the electronic invoice for export and receive the reimbursement, and the store can not deny it.
Good luck forcing the vendor's cooperation.

Depending on how much they dislike being pushed around they'll either refuse to do business with you, or say your stamped receipt arrived late or was indecipherable, or say they never received it.

And if all else fails the dog won't mind taking the blame.
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Old 07.06.2020, 19:34
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

That may be the law in Italy, but it isn’t the law here. In any case you can’t get a VAT refund on anything exported from there to an EU/EEA country.
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Old 07.06.2020, 19:49
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

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Good luck forcing the vendor's cooperation.

Depending on how much they dislike being pushed around they'll either refuse to do business with you, or say your stamped receipt arrived late or was indecipherable, or say they never received it.

And if all else fails the dog won't mind taking the blame.
Obviously if the seller does not cooperate on issuing the invoice it's not going to be pleasant and it might be wise to avoid it, but good to know however that it is a thing.

Once you have an invoice the problems you mentioned don't occur: usually you are supposed to go in person to the store to get reimbursement in cash, and in general all VAT exporting invoices in italy are electronic - it means that the seller will simply open the gov website and check that the invoice #12345 has been exported, and reimbursement is due.

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That may be the law in Italy, but it isn’t the law here. In any case you can’t get a VAT refund on anything exported from there to an EU/EEA country.
What do you mean by exported from "there"? If you mean from Switzerland to EU, that's the opposite of what we were talking :/
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Old 07.06.2020, 20:58
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

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I see - in this case I think this internet store example is not suitable for the OP situation and my question because it is shipping to Switzerland - the question is about stores that ship to their "normal" country (in EU) and the customer exporting that personally
You have to contact the store if they are willing to refund the VAT in case you can show them a stamped receipt, store will decide if, and if so which method and how much.
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Old 07.06.2020, 21:03
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

There being Italy. But we are getting seriously off topic, so I’ll keep quiet.
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Old 08.06.2020, 00:11
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

Yeah, I kinda derailed the thread offtopic, sorry - good to know about the german policy
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Old 08.06.2020, 09:46
Ros Ros is offline
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Re: German VAT return over CHF300,-

Thanks for your quick reply!

As our new garden table is EUR368,- we will have to pay double VAT then. Lucky it's still way cheaper then the CHF597,- Swiss option! Even after double VAT and packing station costs...

Shame not all stores are obliged to return VAT. Any experience with IKEA?
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