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  #21  
Old 30.06.2020, 23:02
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

Iím from Basel, and they donít have the web version here. I know this is the direction forward looking Kantons are adopting, but I guess if they all pool their resources together then they all can have one provider managing the SaaS and then different Kantons can have ďBranchingĒ with specific variations for their Kantons.

There are some seriously smart web based software that can read the data from picture or PDF and populate various fields in the form I.e yearly salary statement, bank confirmation, health contributions etc.

My Kanton still insists on printing the tax calculations and requires wet signature and deliver via einschriben.

I prefer to do the tax returns in Jan as this is the same time I submit UK Self Assessment. I donít know why bank and health institutions canít provide such documents in Jan when the data is already known to them, itís just a matter of automating it.

If some people think web based is unsafe then there are almost 8M people in UK who submit Self Assessment and Iím sure majority do it online without complaining.
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  #22  
Old 01.07.2020, 01:08
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

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If some people think web based is unsafe then there are almost 8M people in UK who submit Self Assessment and Iím sure majority do it online without complaining.
This is the typical egocentric way of arguing that is so omnipresent among anglo-saxons - how something's done elsewhere, even if it's where you come from, is utterly irrelevant. It's like saying that everybody should drive on the left because that's how it's done in the UK.

What you appear to completely ignore are costs, legal preconditions and requirements, but also usefulness, available infrastructure and other resources, and probably a gazillion of other aspects.
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  #23  
Old 02.07.2020, 00:17
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

Urs,

Your argument sounds like a deadwood colleague who quotes ďweíve always done it like thisĒ, and you very well know what people think about those deadwoods, no offence intended. If the Swiss thinks like you, then I guess women would never have the right to vote.

Switzerland is a land of innovation and that kind of thinking would suit a Luddite, no offence intended again. The potential obstacles youíve mentioned should be a challenge to overcome rather than be a dead end. The reason I gave example of UKís process is to demonstrate the success the online Self Assessment achieved, its only an admin proceed that one should improve not change the Swiss culture.

Innovation and convenience always trumps Old habits, Online shopping and the use of digital payments is a prime example even in little Switzerland.
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  #24  
Old 02.07.2020, 10:30
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

I like to have an individual software for each and every year. I have all of them all the way back to 1999 A lot more transparency and reproducability than a web service which can be changed on the whim.

But it has properly to do with the British attitude were laws and their changes are not easily to be found on the government web pages. Whereas in Switzerland all laws are neatly sorted, codified and cataloged with references to the upcoming changes and old version ready for download.
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  #25  
Old 02.07.2020, 11:38
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

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I like to have an individual software for each and every year. I have all of them all the way back to 1999 A lot more transparency and reproducability than a web service which can be changed on the whim.

But it has properly to do with the British attitude were laws and their changes are not easily to be found on the government web pages. Whereas in Switzerland all laws are neatly sorted, codified and cataloged with references to the upcoming changes and old version ready for download.
You can find laws online: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/
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  #26  
Old 02.07.2020, 11:59
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

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Iím from Basel, and they donít have the web version here. I know this is the direction forward looking Kantons are adopting, but I guess if they all pool their resources together then they all can have one provider managing the SaaS and then different Kantons can have ďBranchingĒ with specific variations for their Kantons.
they can do that with non-web software too.

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There are some seriously smart web based software that can read the data from picture or PDF and populate various fields in the form I.e yearly salary statement, bank confirmation, health contributions etc.
also possible to do with non-web software.
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  #27  
Old 02.07.2020, 12:05
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

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I like to have an individual software for each and every year. I have all of them all the way back to 1999 A lot more transparency and reproducability than a web service which can be changed on the whim.

But it has properly to do with the British attitude were laws and their changes are not easily to be found on the government web pages. Whereas in Switzerland all laws are neatly sorted, codified and cataloged with references to the upcoming changes and old version ready for download.
yup. many advantages to having the software.

- reproducability
- ability to review and adjust old years
- can work offline
- no crappy web interface
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  #28  
Old 02.07.2020, 13:28
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

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You can find laws online: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/
Can you tell me from what registration date motorcycles needed two mirrors and indicators in England, Wales, Northern Ireland, and Scotland?
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  #29  
Old 02.07.2020, 13:49
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

What I like about the Italian system is that it is integrated with the Health database, the property register and so on.

You buy a medicine swiping your health card? It goes automatically in the deductions.
You own a piece of land? The income is automatically calculated.

It sounds like Big Brother, I know, but I would say more the useful part of it. It helps fighting evasion and you save a lot of time, no need to fill tens of pages or store the receipts for a few years. Plus, you are always asked to review it and approve it, and if you approve it as it is thex won't double-check that year's declaration, meaning that you can't be prosecuted in case of errors made by the system.
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  #30  
Old 02.07.2020, 14:16
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

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Can you tell me from what registration date motorcycles needed two mirrors and indicators in England, Wales, Northern Ireland, and Scotland?
Try here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made

But you are right that it is not all up to date but primarily legislation should be there

Last edited by Phil_MCR; 02.07.2020 at 16:49.
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  #31  
Old 02.07.2020, 22:07
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

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Urs,

Your argument sounds like a deadwood colleague who quotes ďweíve always done it like thisĒ, and you very well know what people think about those deadwoods, no offence intended. If the Swiss thinks like you, then I guess women would never have the right to vote.
What you make of my post is entirely up to you. The fact that you don't even begin to adress the points I raised tells me that the impression I got is spot on.
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  #32  
Old 27.07.2020, 16:35
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

Just resurrecting an almost-dead-but-still-slightly-warm thread.
What is happening at Garmin right now reminded me of this topic.


Basically, what happens when you expect the software to run on other people's computer.


Difference:
Garmin computers stop working - OK, your 600 francs step counter stopped working. Bummer.
Garmin database gets read by some weird guys - They have some of your health data. Not fun. But it was your own choice to put it there.



Tax office computers stop working - Slightly bigger bummer than above.
Tax office database gets read access over the internet - Erm. No thanks. Upload only please.


Sometimes I feel like our whole society is riding a car down a Swiss mountain on an icy road. All fine and dandy until the first curve arrives.
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  #33  
Old 01.08.2020, 23:44
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

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there are almost 8M people in UK who submit Self Assessment and I’m sure majority do it online without complaining.
Did these 8M vote Leave? or Remain? And what about the 17M people that voted the nazi party in the '33 elections in Germany? I am sure the majority did it without complaining (yes, Godwin, thanks for coming)!
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  #34  
Old Yesterday, 13:02
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Re: Why donít Cantons use web based software or SaaS?

Don't forget Swiss "KantŲnligeist", every canton does its own thing and never speaks to any other canton. It's not quite as bad as that, but particularly the tax authorities don't communicate with each other and there's no incentive for them to harmonize tax declaration and collection systems.
There is a small amount of harmonization because the cantons also tax and collect the federal tax, but I am pretty sure if I made the same declarations in Geneva and Vaud (I live pretty much on the border), the amount of federal tax calculated would be significantly different.
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  #35  
Old Yesterday, 14:28
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Re: Why Cantons donít use web based software or SaaS?

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yup. many advantages to having the software.

- reproducability
- ability to review and adjust old years
- can work offline
- no crappy web interface



The ZhTax app is a huge-ass java app that maxes out cpu-cores on my Mac.


I wouldn't call it "crappy", but it's a close call TBH.
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