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  #181  
Old 27.08.2020, 16:56
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

If you have enough wealth to pay wealth tax, you should be happy.

Add to that no capital gains tax (except on property sales) and no inheritance tax (on depends on Canton) and Switzerland seems an ideal place to retire - and should the money run out, well then there‘s always Exit...
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  #182  
Old 27.08.2020, 16:57
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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Yes, but that's a tax on gains. The wealth tax is a tax on your capital - even if you make no gains!
Thats the risk of holding cash, you are guaranteed to be worse off due to taxation.
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  #183  
Old 27.08.2020, 17:56
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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I can't think of any canton where the wealth tax is 1%. In Ticino it starts at 1 per mille and goes up to 3 per mille. So on CHF 3 million the tax would be chf 9,000 and on CHF 1m CHF 1,000.

What I find so wrong about this tax, is that with current interest rates being -0.75% and the banks paying nothing, it actually depletes your capital! Anyway, that's perhaps for another thread!!
Are you sure your data is correct?

Based on VZ, it does go up to 5-6 per mille even in TI.
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  #184  
Old 27.08.2020, 17:58
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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Exactly, it is all a matter of location, location. location. And not just tax but also cost of housing, be it rentals or purchase. An apartment that would be 3000 in Geneva could be a 1/3 that at the foot of the Jura- or less. And houses which would be 3 mio in Geneva, could also be less than 1 mio. Combine a good tax location and cheaper housing, and there is no reason you shouldn't be able to retire in CH.
Absolutely agree with this ...
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  #185  
Old 27.08.2020, 17:59
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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Thats the risk of holding cash, you are guaranteed to be worse off due to taxation.
TBF if it's real physical cash you're probably holding it simply to avoid declaring it. I'm assuming you mean cash in a bank.
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  #186  
Old 27.08.2020, 18:07
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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TBF if it's real physical cash you're probably holding it simply to avoid declaring it. I'm assuming you mean cash in a bank.
Cash in the Bank is subject to loss as it belongs to the Bank once deposited, a depositor is an unsecured creditor so back of the line & now legally potential subject to a bail in like Cyprus.

Cash held as cash & not declared does not suffer the loss of taxation, I should have qualified.
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  #187  
Old 27.08.2020, 18:18
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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Putting in post code 6600
Pension income 1000
Capital 10,000,000

Tax liability 57,020 that would imply 0.57% wealth tax

With 1,000 pension income & 5,000,000 capital tax is 28,520 so very similar rate

Using Zurich 3k cheaper at 5 million a few hundred more at 10 million
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  #188  
Old 27.08.2020, 21:17
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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I can't think of any canton where the wealth tax is 1%.
don't forget on top of the cantonal wealth tax, the gemeinde wealth tax...
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  #189  
Old 28.08.2020, 07:29
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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don't forget on top of the cantonal wealth tax, the gemeinde wealth tax...
eh? It's cantonal only in Canton Zurich...
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  #190  
Old 28.08.2020, 08:37
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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don't forget on top of the cantonal wealth tax, the gemeinde wealth tax...
AFAIK the numbers listed under this link include both
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  #191  
Old 28.08.2020, 09:48
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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AFAIK the numbers listed under this link include both
This lists wealth tax for a married couple in Zurich with 1 million as CHF1851.-.

According to the table (below) sent with my 2019 tax declaration (ZH) this works out at:

500.50 up to CHF770,000 and 1.50 per 1000 to I million.

500.50 + 230 x 1.50 = CHF 845.50...

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  #192  
Old 28.08.2020, 09:56
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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This lists wealth tax for a married couple in Zurich with 1 million as CHF1851.-.

According to the table (below) sent with my 2019 tax declaration (ZH) this works out at:

500.50 up to CHF770,000 and 1.50 per 1000 to I million.

500.50 + 230 x 1.50 = CHF 845.50...

Remember that you have an income tax deduction of 0.3% for management even if you don't have any fees, on 1 million so you don't pay any income tax on 3000. Therefore the net tax payable on 1 million is closer to zero.
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  #193  
Old 28.08.2020, 10:17
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

Who has the skinny on Spain?
I seem to remember in the 80s/90s the greys would over winter in sunny Spain, as it was so cheap and ambient weather, then take the coach north for the summer back to Manchester or wherever.

Thus keeping the Spanish hotels open.
This seemed to be affordable on a meagre pension.

Is this still a thing?
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  #194  
Old 28.08.2020, 10:24
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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Remember that you have an income tax deduction of 0.3% for management even if you don't have any fees, on 1 million so you don't pay any income tax on 3000. Therefore the net tax payable on 1 million is closer to zero.
this is not universal treatment in all cantons.
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  #195  
Old 28.08.2020, 10:31
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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Who has the skinny on Spain?
I seem to remember in the 80s/90s the greys would over winter in sunny Spain, as it was so cheap and ambient weather, then take the coach north for the summer back to Manchester or wherever.

Thus keeping the Spanish hotels open.
This seemed to be affordable on a meagre pension.

Is this still a thing?
O yes . Come to Benidorm in February and it’s all pensioners partying .
Many bars , hotels, dance venues and such don’t close down but maybe just downshift a gear and make do with a couple less staff .

Maybe not this coming winter due to COVID . But the principle is still there .
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  #196  
Old 28.08.2020, 10:58
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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Remember that you have an income tax deduction of 0.3% for management even if you don't have any fees, on 1 million so you don't pay any income tax on 3000. Therefore the net tax payable on 1 million is closer to zero.
True, so with a marginal tax rate of 20% (in retirement) you reduce the wealth tax by 0.06%. Anyway, we can conclude that unless you live in Geneva and hava huge wealth, you don't come even near 1% wealth tax, not even 0.5%.
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  #197  
Old 28.08.2020, 11:42
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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True, so with a marginal tax rate of 20% (in retirement) you reduce the wealth tax by 0.06%. Anyway, we can conclude that unless you live in Geneva and hava huge wealth, you don't come even near 1% wealth tax, not even 0.5%.
Aspirational investors in Fundsmith need to be worried, over 30 years 1,000,000 would become 143,370,768 using 18% compound rate of return.

100k over 40 years @ 18% is still 75 million.
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  #198  
Old 28.08.2020, 13:15
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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True, so with a marginal tax rate of 20% (in retirement) you reduce the wealth tax by 0.06%. Anyway, we can conclude that unless you live in Geneva and hava huge wealth, you don't come even near 1% wealth tax, not even 0.5%.
those in BS/BL will disagree with you
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  #199  
Old 28.08.2020, 13:27
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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Aspirational investors in Fundsmith need to be worried, over 30 years 1,000,000 would become 143,370,768 using 18% compound rate of return.

100k over 40 years @ 18% is still 75 million.
somewhat optimistic, aren't you?
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Old 28.08.2020, 13:36
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Re: Do you think about your future/retirement etc?

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somewhat optimistic, aren't you?
Perhaps by a couple of percent, before FS started Terry back tested the strategy, it yielded over 16% for the previous 40 years. If you take from late 2002 when Terry started the strategy with the Tullet Prebon pension scheme plus FS since 2010 the return is over 16% as predicted.

If you assume investing from age 40, with death at 90 you will end up with a serious wealth tax bill throughout retirement.
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