Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 18.11.2020, 17:18
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,302
Groaned at 276 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 17,712 Times in 7,476 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

when I sold shares in Nov/Dec to put down a deposit on my house.

this was pre-coronavirus.

i recorded the shares and share value at time of sale into a separate portfolio so that i can track how much i lose on the deposit.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 18.11.2020, 17:22
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,756
Groaned at 357 Times in 298 Posts
Thanked 13,232 Times in 6,238 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Portfolio went down a LOT during Covid 19 (almost 25%) but is now 5% plus again. And that is the average.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 18.11.2020, 17:25
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,284
Groaned at 429 Times in 320 Posts
Thanked 20,677 Times in 10,969 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post
when I sold shares in Nov/Dec to put down a deposit on my house.

this was pre-coronavirus.

i recorded the shares and share value at time of sale into a separate portfolio so that i can track how much i lose on the deposit.
Join the club, I paid a deposit in December & liquidated stock to pay the balance in March. The property is undoubtedly worth less than I paid & the stocks would be worth more. I don't like property as an investment, being married is expensive
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 18.11.2020, 17:30
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,302
Groaned at 276 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 17,712 Times in 7,476 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post
Join the club, I paid a deposit in December & liquidated stock to pay the balance in March. The property is undoubtedly worth less than I paid & the stocks would be worth more. I don't like property as an investment, being married is expensive
in March!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 18.11.2020, 17:31
Capetownian's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Zentralschweiz
Posts: 112
Groaned at 19 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 271 Times in 78 Posts
Capetownian has earned the respect of manyCapetownian has earned the respect of manyCapetownian has earned the respect of many
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

You must have been pretty pleased at the end of March though? Think of the poor chaps that signed for a house in Feb and had to pay in April :-)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 18.11.2020, 17:34
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,284
Groaned at 429 Times in 320 Posts
Thanked 20,677 Times in 10,969 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post
You must have been pretty pleased at the end of March though? Think of the poor chaps that signed for a house in Feb and had to pay in April :-)
It was in France, we completed 7 days into lockdown, April would have made no difference as I had liquidated in December & January at prices significantly lower than today.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 18.11.2020, 17:36
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 1,745
Groaned at 38 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,415 Times in 1,178 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post
when I sold shares in Nov/Dec to put down a deposit on my house.

this was pre-coronavirus.

i recorded the shares and share value at time of sale into a separate portfolio so that i can track how much i lose on the deposit.
How much have you saved in rent cf. mortgage payments in this time? I imagine a good portion of that 70k?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 18.11.2020, 17:45
22 yards's Avatar
All mod cons
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 9,136
Groaned at 290 Times in 229 Posts
Thanked 19,488 Times in 7,679 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post
when I sold shares in Nov/Dec to put down a deposit on my house.

this was pre-coronavirus.

i recorded the shares and share value at time of sale into a separate portfolio so that i can track how much i lose on the deposit.
You've lost nothing.

You failed to make the gain that your share portfolio would have made over that time. But you still have the value that you owned in Nov/Dec, and more, as you own real estate now that will appreciate and that provides you with far better shelter than your shares.

By the same token, I lost $6 billion when I didn't invest $1,000 in Bitcoin @ $0.003 apiece, in March 2010.

Next time, if you think you can beat a 3-4% yield, keep your shares and take out a Lombard loan.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 18.11.2020, 18:09
Village Idiot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 3,645
Groaned at 33 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 6,859 Times in 2,211 Posts
Village Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Margin loans at Interactive Brokers are under 2%. Even if you don't normally trade on margin, it's handy to set it up ahead-of-time in case you ever need money quickly and don't want to liquidate your position.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Village Idiot for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 18.11.2020, 18:14
Village Idiot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 3,645
Groaned at 33 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 6,859 Times in 2,211 Posts
Village Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post
You've lost nothing.

You failed to make the gain that your share portfolio would have made over that time. But you still have the value that you owned in Nov/Dec, and more, as you own real estate now that will appreciate and that provides you with far better shelter than your shares.
I read this as the OP losing money because he had to sell in a depressed market. Eg, he was sitting on a position of XOM that was worth CHF200k when he bought it back in January, but it's fallen to CHF130k by the time he was 'forced' to withdraw it. That is a real loss.

It is also a CHF70k lesson as to why the common advice is not to invest money that you'll need in the next 5 years.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Village Idiot for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 18.11.2020, 18:22
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,302
Groaned at 276 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 17,712 Times in 7,476 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post
How much have you saved in rent cf. mortgage payments in this time? I imagine a good portion of that 70k?
12k-24k depending on how you measure it
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 18.11.2020, 20:37
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 263
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 135 Times in 92 Posts
Dr Mick is considered knowledgeableDr Mick is considered knowledgeableDr Mick is considered knowledgeable
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post
It was in France, we completed 7 days into lockdown, April would have made no difference as I had liquidated in December & January at prices significantly lower than today.
Stocks tend to go up over time, so it's not surprising that today's prices are higher
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Dr Mick for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 18.11.2020, 20:41
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 12,987
Groaned at 206 Times in 183 Posts
Thanked 18,817 Times in 7,671 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Profit not realised is no profit at all. "If I'd have waited another month..."

Mug's game.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 19.11.2020, 01:10
22 yards's Avatar
All mod cons
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 9,136
Groaned at 290 Times in 229 Posts
Thanked 19,488 Times in 7,679 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post
I read this as the OP losing money because he had to sell in a depressed market. Eg, he was sitting on a position of XOM that was worth CHF200k when he bought it back in January, but it's fallen to CHF130k by the time he was 'forced' to withdraw it. That is a real loss.

It is also a CHF70k lesson as to why the common advice is not to invest money that you'll need in the next 5 years.
I'm reasonably sure that Phil didn't realise a real loss, partly because he didn't post to agree with your assessment , but mostly because of this:
Quote:
View Post
i recorded the shares and share value at time of sale into a separate portfolio so that i can track how much i lose on the deposit.
He has been tracking the value of his former portfolio so he can work out just how much he has "lost" since he disposed of it, not at the time of disposal. A bad case of cognitive dissonance, a sort of reverse buyer's remorse. Well, seller's remorse, I guess.

Again, taking Bitcoin as my example, I have been hodling assiduously since 2017. Throughout that time I have missed several opportunities to make a killing by selling high, then rebuying low, rinsing and repeating (including the obvious opportunity, when Bitcoin plunged to less than $5,000 in March this year on the back of global COVID lockdowns). Now BTC is going through $18,000. So I lost $13,000 per coin.

Except I didn't, because I still own those coins and they're worth a lot more than I paid for them. IF (and that's a big if) I sell them now, I'll make several times my initial investment in profit. If not, I continue not to have made or lost anything.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 19.11.2020, 08:28
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,282
Groaned at 143 Times in 100 Posts
Thanked 9,125 Times in 3,457 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post
Join the club, I paid a deposit in December & liquidated stock to pay the balance in March. The property is undoubtedly worth less than I paid & the stocks would be worth more. I don't like property as an investment, being married is expensive
Does T know she is an expensive investment😶?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 19.11.2020, 08:56
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,061
Groaned at 43 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,899 Times in 723 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post
I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

70k must be like weekend grocery shopping for a rich man like you


Quote:
View Post
Join the club, I paid a deposit in December & liquidated stock to pay the balance in March.

Why did you not take out a mortgage for the balance?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 19.11.2020, 09:11
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,284
Groaned at 429 Times in 320 Posts
Thanked 20,677 Times in 10,969 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post

Why did you not take out a mortgage for the balance?
I don't qualify as my income is tiny. I live from capital gains on investments. I also don't like geared investments, especially when asset prices are so high.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 19.11.2020, 12:02
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: GR
Posts: 437
Groaned at 21 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 142 Times in 120 Posts
wantone has no particular reputation at present
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post
I don't qualify as my income is tiny. I live from capital gains on investments. I also don't like geared investments, especially when asset prices are so high.
Don't you draw a pension?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 19.11.2020, 13:21
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,284
Groaned at 429 Times in 320 Posts
Thanked 20,677 Times in 10,969 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

Quote:
View Post
Don't you draw a pension?
All taken as cash, I am 58 so no pillar 1.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 19.11.2020, 13:48
krlock3's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,048
Groaned at 46 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,106 Posts
krlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I lost >70k in the stock market in less than 1 year

This thread is the EF equivalent of clickbait. Is the OP receiving advertising revenue?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Investing in the stock market Sam99 Finance/banking/taxation 2 09.04.2019 14:43
Is the US stock market in a bubble Phil_MCR Finance/banking/taxation 34 16.06.2017 15:32
What is going on today in the stock market? [Big falls in value] ukal123 Business & entrepreneur 25 07.04.2011 14:32
Stock Market Manipulation? Guest Finance/banking/taxation 1 07.05.2010 01:06
Global stock market, in which point are we? Macchiato Finance/banking/taxation 1 30.04.2009 08:14


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0