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View Poll Results: How much would I venture to invest?
None - it is too risky enterprise 4 5.97%
Few thousand CHF - low exposure to risk 9 13.43%
Several ten thousands CHF - medium exposure to risk 21 31.34%
Several hundred thousand CHF - high exposure to risk 15 22.39%
Above the million CHF - no risk averse 11 16.42%
None of your business 7 10.45%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 12.01.2021, 14:20
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Re: How much you are able to invest in stock market?

The difficulty I have with this poll is that the options assume that low investment amount equals exposure to risk, and the higher the investment amount, the greater the exposure risk.

And yet, in a diversified asset allocation, the exposure to risk could be reduced when the investment amount is greater.
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  #82  
Old 12.01.2021, 14:31
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Re: How much you are able to invest in stock market?

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The difficulty I have with this poll is that the options assume that low investment amount equals exposure to risk, and the higher the investment amount, the greater the exposure risk.

And yet, in a diversified asset allocation, the exposure to risk could be reduced when the investment amount is greater.
Of course. Understood. Please select option that reflects your current situation better and our top management will get back to you ASAP. (Sounds very Swiss )

P.S. For instance ... What level of Risk? Hell, I am very resilient and have no problem with it

On the serious note though, I agree that higher capital put in play on the market will result with higher gains in bull market but also higher losses in the bear market. Over the time though it’s assumed that the stocks will increase their value.

What I meant though is, for a typical household you remove certain amount of disposable income that you may part with for certain or indefinite duration of time. So there is always the risk that you don’t have access to it in unpredictable case of e.g. job loss, sudden unexpected expenses, pandemic, economic crash ... and whatever calamity occurs for that matter that will force you to use the money that initially were not planned.
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Last edited by jacek; 12.01.2021 at 14:44.
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  #83  
Old 12.01.2021, 22:18
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Re: How much you are able to invest in stock market?

I leave 1 month worth of expenses as cash and the rest goes to equities. If real emergency* hits, I don't care if timing is not perfect, I'll sell some and get cash back. Otherwise, it is accumulating and the more further I am away from day 0, market crash seems not that worrying.

Does it sound risky?

*New car is not emergency

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Of course. Understood. Please select option that reflects your current situation better and our top management will get back to you ASAP. (Sounds very Swiss )

P.S. For instance ... What level of Risk? Hell, I am very resilient and have no problem with it

On the serious note though, I agree that higher capital put in play on the market will result with higher gains in bull market but also higher losses in the bear market. Over the time though its assumed that the stocks will increase their value.

What I meant though is, for a typical household you remove certain amount of disposable income that you may part with for certain or indefinite duration of time. So there is always the risk that you dont have access to it in unpredictable case of e.g. job loss, sudden unexpected expenses, pandemic, economic crash ... and whatever calamity occurs for that matter that will force you to use the money that initially were not planned.
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  #84  
Old 12.01.2021, 22:31
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Re: How much you are able to invest in stock market?

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I leave 1 month worth of expenses as cash and the rest goes to equities. If real emergency* hits, I don't care if timing is not perfect, I'll sell some and get cash back. Otherwise, it is accumulating and the more further I am away from day 0, market crash seems not that worrying.

Does it sound risky?

*New car is not emergency
I leave about 1000 CHF more than I need each month. I can sell funds with no charge and get the money within a few days if need be.
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  #85  
Old 12.01.2021, 22:53
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Re: How much you are able to invest in stock market?

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Does it sound risky?
On "average" - yes.
But we all have different tolerance - to each their own.

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I leave about 1000 CHF more than I need each month. I can sell funds with no charge and get the money within a few days if need be.
At a potential (large) loss...
There could be other "better" ways to cover further "emergency" expenses (e.g. via credit card etc.)

I prefer keeping a certain cash buffer - which can serve both as the EF as well as dry powder if a sudden drop(portunity) hits.
Don't mind the slight opportunity cost for that potential benefit.

Last edited by gipfelisturmer; 12.01.2021 at 23:12.
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  #86  
Old 13.01.2021, 01:56
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Re: How much you are able to invest in stock market?

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I prefer keeping a certain cash buffer - which can serve both as the EF as well as dry powder if a sudden drop(portunity) hits.
Don't mind the slight opportunity cost for that potential benefit.
While I agree with the concept of always having a rainy day fund (for those who can afford it) and I have many times been happy that I had a fund to steal out of when in need, I think one needs to be careful about making the main purpose of that fund a powder store for the next market drop, as trying to time the market is always a questionable strategy.

I missed out on the best bit of the March drop as I was so convinced that the market was going to drop further that I didn't buy when the recovery began and thus missed out on the best few weeks of recovery until finally I realized it wasn't a random blip. I can't complain as I still made good money out of it overall, but I could have made much more.
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  #87  
Old 13.01.2021, 02:43
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Re: How much you are able to invest in stock market?

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On "average" - yes.
But we all have different tolerance - to each their own.


At a potential (large) loss...
There could be other "better" ways to cover further "emergency" expenses (e.g. via credit card etc.)

I prefer keeping a certain cash buffer - which can serve both as the EF as well as dry powder if a sudden drop(portunity) hits.
Don't mind the slight opportunity cost for that potential benefit.
margin is relatively cheap with IB. i guess you could use that as an emergency credit line and replenish with salary. likewise, you can use the margin for opportunities.
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  #88  
Old 13.01.2021, 11:07
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Re: How much you are able to invest in stock market?

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margin is relatively cheap with IB. i guess you could use that as an emergency credit line and replenish with salary. likewise, you can use the margin for opportunities.
Not a good piece of advice IMHO. If things go south you get a margin call and it's game over.

I'd rather listen to Buffett:

My partner Charlie Munger says there are only three ways a smart person can go broke: liquor, ladies, and leverage. Now the truth is the first two he just added because they started with L its leverage.
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  #89  
Old 13.01.2021, 11:28
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Re: How much you are able to invest in stock market?

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Not a good piece of advice IMHO. If things go south you get a margin call and it's game over.

I'd rather listen to Buffett:

My partner Charlie Munger says there are only three ways a smart person can go broke: liquor, ladies, and leverage. Now the truth is the first two he just added because they started with L its leverage.
I agree that leverage should be avoided, but borrowing at ~2% on IB margin is preferable to 20% on a credit card. And I'm talking about small amounts just to tide you over to the next payday that are unlikely to trigger a margin call.
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  #90  
Old 13.01.2021, 11:52
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Re: How much you are able to invest in stock market?

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margin is relatively cheap with IB. i guess you could use that as an emergency credit line and replenish with salary. likewise, you can use the margin for opportunities.
It is but you are getting exposed to the decisions of other people that can deliver a blow to your account.
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  #91  
Old 13.01.2021, 15:28
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Re: How much you are able to invest in stock market?

I think not investing in the stock market has a higher risk if you look at the long run / retirement. You can read good studies on withdrawal rates and how different investments can influence them. I assume a 4% withdrawal rate based on the Trinity study in retirement. We invest for the long run and I follow a 'bogleheads' (based on the founder of Vanguard) philosophy to use low cost broad based index funds.

We have 35% in US equities, 35% in international equities and 30% in bonds. I did re-balance when it hit our bands (5%) in March / April (buying more stocks to stay 70/30) and then recently back again. Worked out quite well.

We use the lowest cost funds and do invest in the world market and not individual stocks or sector funds. 1% fee will add up quickly over the years. Because of our US citizenship we use US funds and companies (Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab) and also have an IB account (US based).

Also no bitcoin or TSLA .

For safety we have approx. 6 month expenses in cash equivalents in our accounts (Swiss and US) and we also keep the Swiss taxes (C permit) accrued available.
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