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Old 19.01.2021, 14:27
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Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)


Hi,



I’m looking for someone who could help me with the section “Wertschriften-und Guthabenverzeichnis” where I need to declare my stocks (mainly CAN/US), dividends, and crypto currencies. I have a basic understanding of what to do here, but since it’s my first time filling it out this section I would rather pay someone to advise me correctly. I don’t need someone to do my full tax return, but just need some guidance with this section.



Let me know if anyone knows someone they could recommend for this.



Cheers, Jeff

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  #2  
Old 19.01.2021, 16:46
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

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Hi,



I’m looking for someone who could help me with the section “Wertschriften-und Guthabenverzeichnis” where I need to declare my stocks (mainly CAN/US), dividends, and crypto currencies. I have a basic understanding of what to do here, but since it’s my first time filling it out this section I would rather pay someone to advise me correctly. I don’t need someone to do my full tax return, but just need some guidance with this section.



Let me know if anyone knows someone they could recommend for this.



Cheers, Jeff

The tax office will help you, that lady who always deals with this speaks perfect English. She will even send emails in English.
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  #3  
Old 19.01.2021, 17:35
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

I can confirm that as well, very helpful. Alternatively type in the ISIN code and your online tool will find it.

You can also search for the Wertschriftenverzeichnis of your Kanton and look it all up there.
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Old 19.01.2021, 17:50
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

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I can confirm that as well, very helpful. Alternatively type in the ISIN code and your online tool will find it.

You can also search for the Wertschriftenverzeichnis of your Kanton and look it all up there.
I never bother with the codes for new holdings after I moved from Post Finance to Charles Schwab, they did not comment. Tax refunds from dividends received with 6 weeks.
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Old 20.01.2021, 20:13
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

I was about to ask a similar question, I'll try to add to this post instead.
Specifically, I need a tax consultant with some level of knowledge in cryptocurrencies.

As a reference, this is the document about cryptocurrencies on the Zürich tax office (Steueramt) website: https://www.zh.ch/de/steuern-finanze...zstb-16-5.html

In short: cryptocurrencies are treated more or less like gold, so the
property tax (Vermögenssteuer) is due, but no income tax (Einkommenssteuer) if it's considered private asset management (privaten Vermögensverwaltung).

My fear is my activity not being classified as private asset management, and it's there I need help.
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Old 20.01.2021, 21:05
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

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In short: cryptocurrencies are treated more or less like gold, so the
property tax (Vermögenssteuer) is due, but no income tax (Einkommenssteuer) if it's considered private asset management (privaten Vermögensverwaltung).

My fear is my activity not being classified as private asset management, and it's there I need help.
Why do you think that? Do you trade daily?
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Old 20.01.2021, 21:20
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

Surely you just file in the normal way i.e. worth at the end of the year and let the tax office decide? Or is there also a requirement to declare all your trades? If so is there a way to make it appear non-professional?
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Old 20.01.2021, 23:21
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

Swiss tax administration circular nr. 36 (Kreisschreiben) lists the criteria to determine whether securities trading is a business and is linked at this link (German). This link also includes "safe havens" which apply to Ct. Bern taxpayers:


http://www.taxinfo.sv.fin.be.ch/taxi...chriftenhandel


Credit Suisse categorizes indicators of high and low importance as follows (translated):


"Indicators of greater importance
- Amount of the transaction volume (frequency of the transactions and short period of ownership)
- Use of substantial external funds to finance the transactions (especially critical if debt interest and expenses cannot be covered by periodic income)
- Use of derivatives (critical if the use of derivatives exceeds the hedging of risks or if a large volume is implemented in relation to the total assets)
Indications of minor importance
- Systematic or planned manner or reinvestment of the profits obtained in similar assets
- Close connection of the transactions with the professional activity of the taxpayer as well as the use of special expertise."


Source: Credit Suisse "Gewerbsmässiger Wertschriftenhändler"
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Old 20.01.2021, 23:34
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

My trading activity is minimal and infrequent. I bought crypto a few years ago, and I didn't touch most of them. At current prices, my return would be massive in front of a rather limited initial investment.

I'm planning to cash out over a short timespan (weeks). That means a lot of money would flow to my bank account (potentially, way more than my yearly wage).
I fear that may play a role, and I'm wondering if I should plan this differently.
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Old 20.01.2021, 23:42
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

@Mullhollander I read your post late. Thanks for the handy reference!

If I interpret it correctly, the total amount may be irrelevant in front of very limited trading activity. Still, I see the ratio with the annual income may play a role. That would be a deal-breaker to me
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Old 21.01.2021, 02:16
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

I don't think you'll have any problem. If you effectively have a huge capital increase then good for you.
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Old 21.01.2021, 17:15
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

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I don't think you'll have any problem. If you effectively have a huge capital increase then good for you.
That's encouraging! May I ask if you have any references to support this, or if it comes from experience in the sector?

I'm confused since, as an inexperienced on the topic, most of the official sources say I don't have to bother only if below a fixed threshold or a percentage of regular yearly income.
I may be way off both values, and in that case "it's discretionary". Then it's hard for me to understand what plays a significant role
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Old 21.01.2021, 17:43
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

Does it look like a fish, or look like a duck?


If you buy an asset, leave it a few years then sell it at 1000% profit, that's not 'trading' is it?
If you buy assets and every so often strategically sell and buy other assets, maybe even buying the original assets back at some point, that's also not trading, it's 'asset management'.

If you buy and sell assets and 'earn' amounts each month that serve as income then you're probably a trader. Particularly true if you have little other regular income.


But no I don't have any particular links other than what's already been posted.
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Old 21.01.2021, 18:15
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

@Landers I totally agree with what you wrote.

I guess the only tricky part is the last case you mentioned.
Gradually selling the asset looks like good asset management. What if that results in a semi-regular inflow of money into my bank account over weeks/months, resulting in a total +400% in my bank account? I fear the tax office may see that as my primary source of money and therefore decide it's taxable income. And I fear having a standard wage won't help since that would be eclipsed in that tax year.
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Old 21.01.2021, 18:24
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

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@Landers I totally agree with what you wrote.

I guess the only tricky part is the last case you mentioned.
Gradually selling the asset looks like good asset management. What if that results in a semi-regular inflow of money into my bank account over weeks/months, resulting in a total +400% in my bank account? I fear the tax office may see that as my primary source of money and therefore decide it's taxable income. And I fear having a standard wage won't help since that would be eclipsed in that tax year.
Surely they will just see it as a reclassification of your wealth from one asset class (crypto) to another (cash)? You have declared your crypto holdings as part of your wealth I assume? It won‘t take a genius in the tax office to see that the value of e.g. Bitcoin has increased from X to Y.
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Old 21.01.2021, 21:39
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

They will likely also consider whether your current "normal" income has remained the same, i.e. if you can support yourself on your salary (or whatever) then that might be an additional indicator that this is not professional trading but mere selling or management.

However, if anticipate a windfall you might still want to have a tax expert have a look at it (and your overall tax situation). PM if you need a suggestion.
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Old 22.01.2021, 00:37
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

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They will likely also consider whether your current "normal" income has remained the same, i.e. if you can support yourself on your salary (or whatever) then that might be an additional indicator that this is not professional trading but mere selling or management.
Ok, good to know. And I'll PM you.

You have all been very helpful. I believe I should be safe, but I guess contacting a tax expert now (as suggested) would the best idea to clear out the final doubts.

If anyone could recommend a person, especially with any expertise in cryptocurrencies, please contact me (or share here).
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Old 08.02.2021, 16:59
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

Based on popular demand (am I the only one who failed to jump on to the crypto train...), here the contact details of the tax expert I've been recommending:

Marius Breier, certified tax expert
https://www.walderwyss.com/en/lawyers/marius.breier
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Old 11.04.2021, 21:14
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Re: Professional help tax declaration in ZH for investments (stock, dividend, crypto)

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Ok, good to know. And I'll PM you.

You have all been very helpful. I believe I should be safe, but I guess contacting a tax expert now (as suggested) would the best idea to clear out the final doubts.

If anyone could recommend a person, especially with any expertise in cryptocurrencies, please contact me (or share here).
Hi,

Can you update us about the outcome? were you taxed on capital gains?

Thanks
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