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Old 24.01.2021, 19:26
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Vested benefits account storage

I'm not in Switzerland at the moment though it's more than feasible I might move back in the not too distant future (partner is Swiss).

When I left I was able to get a chunk of my pension money from my ex employer but some remained locked up in a ubs vested benefits account.

It seems this account is only growing by something like 2 francs a year interest meanwhile they're going to start charging 3 francs a month maintainance...

Getting the money and doing something with it isn't much of a priority for me, I'm not too bothered about pensions, but I would like to avoid actively losing pension money if possible.

Does anyone know if there's any accounts I may be allowed to put my money into without a fee?
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Old 24.01.2021, 19:49
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Re: Vested benefits account storage

Vested benefits are the only ones pensions can go into as far as I know. You could try other banks and see what charges, if any, they have.
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Old 24.01.2021, 20:06
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Re: Vested benefits account storage

Or put it in one that allows some investment. I think they exist now? Could be wrong.
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Old 24.01.2021, 21:01
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Re: Vested benefits account storage

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Or put it in one that allows some investment. I think they exist now? Could be wrong.
I think you can have it invested with VIAC.

https://viac.ch/en/vested-benefits/
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Old 25.01.2021, 02:43
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Re: Vested benefits account storage

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Vested benefits are the only ones pensions can go into as far as I know. You could try other banks and see what charges, if any, they have.
The best is finpension. Avoid the banks like the plague!
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Old 25.01.2021, 10:31
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Re: Vested benefits account storage

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Does anyone know if there's any accounts I may be allowed to put my money into without a fee?
VIAC, VIAC, VIAC! I had a hefty (6 figure sum) in a UBS vested account for 18 months as well as about 70K in a Pillar 3 account with Credit Suisse. Neither earned me anything in interest. In October I finally confronted my laziness and moved them both to VIAC, and chose their high-equity growth options. (WARNING - these are obviously the higher risk options too, so don’t take this as advice, merely my own experience.) Since early November 2020 i.e. less than 3 months, I’m over 24% up across both vested and Pillar 3. I benefited from a lucky spike in November but the growth has been steady, nevertheless. I only wish I’d done this earlier.

Notes:
- it took a bit of persistence to choose the high-risk, high-growth choices because their algorithm wanted me to opt for low-risk choices because of my age. They’re obliged to do this but after plenty of ‘yes, I do definitely want to do this' confirmations, I got what I wanted.

- I’m aware that this might all go terribly wrong, and you should be too.

- it took me some time I.e. weeks to get the transfer admin sorted out. This was mainly a delay at the UBS/CS end, not VIAC.

- VIAC makes purchases monthly, on the 2nd or 3rd of each month. So there may be a further delay before the investments are made.

But all in all, this was a great decision SO FAR. Again, I stress that my eyes are open, and there’s no chance that this growth will continue. In fact there are bound to be bumps in the road. But for me it worked out.

PM me if you want further info.
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Old 25.01.2021, 10:52
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Re: Vested benefits account storage

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Vested benefits are the only ones pensions can go into as far as I know.
True. But, vested benefit accounts come in many different flavors, just like 3a accounts.

- Simple saving accounts.
- Fund based accounts.
- Insurance products.

Also the UBS has more than just simple saving accounts. However, their management fees are rather high. Next to VIAC which offers lot of flexibility and low fees there is also Liberty, all the other banks and insurance companies. The offer might be limited depending on the money you have and place of residence aboard.

On has also to consider if cashing it out and investing it otherwise might be the better option as any Franc accumulated in a vested benefit account will be taxed in the end.
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Old 25.01.2021, 10:56
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Re: Vested benefits account storage

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...On has also to consider if cashing it out and investing it otherwise might be the better option as any Franc accumulated in a vested benefit account will be taxed in the end.
My understanding is that tax on withdrawal in most Kantons is not high i.e. a couple of percent. My understanding is also that some Kantons e.g. Schwyz tax nothing at all, and that you can switch the fund to one of these Kantons just before you want to cash out in order to avoid tax. I'm happy to be corrected on this.
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Old 25.01.2021, 10:58
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Re: Vested benefits account storage

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VIAC, VIAC, VIAC! I had a hefty (6 figure sum) in a UBS vested account for 18 months as well as about 70K in a Pillar 3 account with Credit Suisse. Neither earned me anything in interest. In October I finally confronted my laziness and moved them both to VIAC, and chose their high-equity growth options. (WARNING - these are obviously the higher risk options too, so don’t take this as advice, merely my own experience.) Since early November 2020 i.e. less than 3 months, I’m over 24% up across both vested and Pillar 3. I benefited from a lucky spike in November but the growth has been steady, nevertheless. I only wish I’d done this earlier.

Notes:
- it took a bit of persistence to choose the high-risk, high-growth choices because their algorithm wanted me to opt for low-risk choices because of my age. They’re obliged to do this but after plenty of ‘yes, I do definitely want to do this' confirmations, I got what I wanted.

- I’m aware that this might all go terribly wrong, and you should be too.

- it took me some time I.e. weeks to get the transfer admin sorted out. This was mainly a delay at the UBS/CS end, not VIAC.

- VIAC makes purchases monthly, on the 2nd or 3rd of each month. So there may be a further delay before the investments are made.

But all in all, this was a great decision SO FAR. Again, I stress that my eyes are open, and there’s no chance that this growth will continue. In fact there are bound to be bumps in the road. But for me it worked out.

PM me if you want further info.
That’s great decision at least back then. My pillar 3a is still invested by CS with a rather lazy package MIXTA BVG Defensive composed of:

25% equities
59% bonds
11% real estate
5% money market

This only yields slightly over 6% to date. I can either change the investment package with different components or leave the CS altogether.

As I’m already heavily invested in more risky products elsewhere, cannot make up my mind if not leave it there for now. Therefore, I switched to MIXTA Equity 75 with few clicks of the buttons on mobile app:

75% equities
10% bonds
10% real estate
5% money market

The party with equities should go on for at least few more months.
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Last edited by jacek; 25.01.2021 at 11:21.
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Old 25.01.2021, 11:16
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Re: Vested benefits account storage

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My understanding is that tax on withdrawal in most Kantons is not high i.e. a couple of percent. My understanding is also that some Kantons e.g. Schwyz tax nothing at all, and that you can switch the fund to one of these Kantons just before you want to cash out in order to avoid tax. I'm happy to be corrected on this.
Also Canton Schwyz charges you tax. The payout tax is a fraction of the regular income tax. To be eligible for the lower SZ tax you must either be: taxed at source, if not be resident in that canton, or live abroad (tax at source OR double taxation agreement will apply).
Payout tax for 100k is around CHF 2.7k. With 6% performance you will double it in around 12 years. Payout tax for 200k is CHF 10k.
(Used Schwyz City, tax at source is slightly different but in the same ballpark)

https://www.postfinance.ch/en/privat...m-payment.html
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Old 25.01.2021, 11:41
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Re: Vested benefits account storage

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Also Canton Schwyz charges you tax. The payout tax is a fraction of the regular income tax. To be eligible for the lower SZ tax you must either be: taxed at source, if not be resident in that canton, or live abroad (tax at source OR double taxation agreement will apply).
Payout tax for 100k is around CHF 2.7k. With 6% performance you will double it in around 12 years. Payout tax for 200k is CHF 10k.
(Used Schwyz City, tax at source is slightly different but in the same ballpark)

https://www.postfinance.ch/en/privat...m-payment.html
And look carefully at the cost of the accounts in Schwyz. They are aware people like the lower tax, hence they charge for opening and closing the account as well as fees attached to the amount of wealth. So you save some and lose some. Better look in the details before going through the trouble.
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