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  #21  
Old 21.02.2021, 15:37
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

Thank you for this thread. I asked similar question regarding NE and JU short time ago.


It is good to know that Cantons are known to be more social and open to help less fortunate, to me personally this gives a good feeling regarding moving there as I am eying a property in NE right now.
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  #22  
Old 21.02.2021, 23:35
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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Thank you for this thread. I asked similar question regarding NE and JU short time ago.


It is good to know that Cantons are known to be more social and open to help less fortunate, to me personally this gives a good feeling regarding moving there as I am eying a property in NE right now.
Thank you for the response, I haven't been aware of your thread. The capital of NE is very beautiful, I particularly liked the promenade.
My situation is that I am thinking about moving out from the beautiful VD to a somewhat less attractive ZG to stand a chance of saving enough for a minimal mortgage down-payment =)
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  #23  
Old 22.02.2021, 01:33
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Re: Neuchatel and Jura taxes & benefits

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There is no easy short answer that can be written here in a short EF post.

Neuchâtel is actually working very hard currently at changing the tax system and attract more people, and business. New plans will be published at the end of March.

Property and rents, on the other hand, are much cheaper than most places, especially if you move away from the lake.
One option would be to keep relatively high income taxes but lower wealth taxes significantly.

The problem with NE is that income taxes make it a write off for working there and wealth taxes would do the same for retiring there. I don't intend on having much at all in the way of income as a pensioner so would be looking almost entirely at wealth taxes.
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  #24  
Old 22.02.2021, 15:43
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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This translates in higher taxes for those who still pay them (for instance, about 40% of the people living in Lausanne don't pay taxes ... )
Talk about misleading the readers. That includes everybody younger than age 18, for example, as if you'd expected a newborn to pay any taxes.
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Old 22.02.2021, 16:19
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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Thank you! Do they rationalise it some how, if not in numbers than in some slogans ?
When you are a voter you get a detailed information pack with it. I have a 30 document here on local funding which we are voting in march for example.
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  #26  
Old 22.02.2021, 16:20
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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Because they are a bunch of socialists.

Tom
Some day Tom might make a meaningful contribution, but not just yet...
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  #27  
Old 22.02.2021, 16:54
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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VS does tax deals with wealthy foreigners, about 25% of all such deals are in VS
Those ‘special’ deals are for foreign residents who do not have Swiss wealth or income. Rock stars and racing drivers mostly.

Cue
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  #28  
Old 22.02.2021, 18:05
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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Talk about misleading the readers. That includes everybody younger than age 18, for example, as if you'd expected a newborn to pay any taxes.
No need to groan at my post. Obviously there will always be a certain % of people who will not pay taxes (as you mentioned), but it is a well known fact that more and more people need financial aid in Suisse Romande compared to the German part, and this for various reasons.

When you have 40% of the population who does not pay taxes, and a good amount of the remaining 60% who benefit from financial aid (help with health insurance, or PC familles which helps families who work but do not have enough revenue), then it's pretty much normal to have higher taxes.

https://www.bilan.ch/economie/impots...nt_les_romands

https://www.letemps.ch/suisse/geneve...s-ne-paie-rien

(Deuxième constatation: le nombre de contribuables qui ne paient aucun impôt ne cesse d’augmenter.)
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  #29  
Old 22.02.2021, 19:01
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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Those ‘special’ deals are for foreign residents who do not have Swiss wealth or income. Rock stars and racing drivers mostly.

Cue
Not working in Switzerland, they can invest as much as they like in Swiss assets & have income from those assets. They can even use the tax credit towards their tax bill. Probably why Switzerland does not have any Formula 1 race tracks.....
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  #30  
Old 22.02.2021, 19:06
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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Thank you for this thread. I asked similar question regarding NE and JU short time ago.


It is good to know that Cantons are known to be more social and open to help less fortunate, to me personally this gives a good feeling regarding moving there as I am eying a property in NE right now.
Hihi, would love to know which part

Within the Canton, there are vast differences in property values- depending if by the Lake or not. If you are prepared to move further from the Lake, values are amazingly low- and compensate to a large extent for higher taxes- especially if you have a significant mortgage.
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  #31  
Old 22.02.2021, 19:41
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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Not working in Switzerland, they can invest as much as they like in Swiss assets & have income from those assets. They can even use the tax credit towards their tax bill. Probably why Switzerland does not have any Formula 1 race tracks.....
Formula One grand prix races have been banned in Switzerland since a racing disaster at Le Mans killed 80 spectators in 1955.
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  #32  
Old 22.02.2021, 19:57
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Re: Neuchatel and Jura [and now Vaud] taxes & benefits

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Hi Everyone,

It is hardly a secret that Neuchatel and Jura are among the highest taxed places in Switzerland. Neuchatel Cantonal income tax is particularly high: almost double of that in Zurich.

But why?

Do those cantons follow more social politics or is it the income / wealth structure of canton that forces such high taxes?

Thanks
A great article from Bilan, an economic magazine from French speaking Switzerland. https://www.bilan.ch/economie/impots...nt_les_romands

st2lemans was not thaaaat wrong. Albeit I'd not call them socialists but believers of miracles, prone to magical thinking or something like that:

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Like Geneva, the canton of Vaud is characterized by its extremes. On the one hand, according to statistics from Scris, around 16% of taxpayers aged 21 and over do not pay taxes. A proportion that rises to 22% according to the Cantonal Tax Administration which calculates this rate for all taxpayers (+18 years).

This population is made up of people on social assistance, young people in training, self-employed people who have made losses, etc., but we do not manage to know the breakdown by category. This phenomenon worries the Vaud Minister of Finance. "We are approaching what theorists call the" tyranny of the exempt "capable, by their sheer number, of completely democratically rejecting the total cost of the state on others", notes Pascal Broulis in his book The happy tax.
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In the Jura, 10% of taxpayers do not have sufficient taxable income to pay taxes, while the richest 10% pay around 46% of the bill. Only five people declare a taxable income above 1 million francs.
On one hand it's cool to support young people in training, self-employed with loses, people on social assistance with low to no taxes. On the other hand, that young people in training will finish their formation one day, start earning a better income, look at the taxation rate......and move to a lower tax canton. What's the point in supporting people in apprenticeship if they're going to be taxed greatly as soon as they finish their studies?

Data supports this, take a look at the fraction of people 20-64 years old at different cantons. The 20-64 years old are 63.2% of population in Zurich while only 57.9% in Jura. That 5% missing are probably the high earners. Probably the challenge of learning German is something that prevents more Swiss crossing the Röstigraben https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/fr/home....13707202.html
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  #33  
Old 22.02.2021, 20:08
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Re: Neuchatel and Jura [and now Vaud] taxes & benefits

PS. it would be great to look at the net taxation rate. Maybe the high taxes are just for people who cannot deduct for several reasons: ignorance, withheld taxes, cost of treuhand/fiduciaire, not having at least 100K CHF as down payment for a mortgage, etc.

But this is dreaming, data privacy is more important than religion so it's not possible to know the net tax rate of individuals. My wild guess is that the elite pays a very low net tax rate in Jura and Neuchâtel.......but privacy above all!
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  #34  
Old 22.02.2021, 20:21
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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No need to groan at my post. Obviously there will always be a certain % of people who will not pay taxes (as you mentioned), but it is a well known fact that more and more people need financial aid in Suisse Romande compared to the German part, and this for various reasons.
Apprentices who still live in the parental household, which must be something above 90% of all apprentices, will count as "pays no tax" even though the salary is added to the partents' and subject to their marginal tax rate.

Claiming some part of the population pays no taxes is not only misleading, it's an outright lie. The people at Bilan must be completely aware of how cases like the one mentioned work.
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Old 22.02.2021, 21:04
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Re: Neuchatel and Jura [and now Vaud] taxes & benefits

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Data supports this, take a look at the fraction of people 20-64 years old at different cantons. The 20-64 years old are 63.2% of population in Zurich while only 57.9% in Jura. That 5% missing are probably the high earners. Probably the challenge of learning German is something that prevents more Swiss crossing the Röstigraben https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/fr/home....13707202.html
It's due to the young fleeing the bondocks and moving to the cities. They see a better life there, jobs, finding love, better nightlife, etc. It's also where the universities/FachHochSchulen are.
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  #36  
Old 23.02.2021, 11:36
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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VS does tax deals with wealthy foreigners, about 25% of all such deals are in VS
Isn't this an "unjustified tax benefit," which could potentially trigger Art. 129 para. 3 of the Constitution? For reference:

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3. The Confederation may issue regulations to prevent unjustified tax benefits.
As far as I'm concerned, the Federal Government has never needed to invoke this article, though. My understanding was that the Cantons have voluntary opted to avoid such tax breaks.
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  #37  
Old 23.02.2021, 11:50
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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Apprentices who still live in the parental household, which must be something above 90% of all apprentices, will count as "pays no tax" even though the salary is added to the partents' and subject to their marginal tax rate.
No, it's not, they pay their own taxes.

Tom
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  #38  
Old 23.02.2021, 12:13
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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As far as I'm concerned, the Federal Government has never needed to invoke this article, though. My understanding was that the Cantons have voluntary opted to avoid such tax breaks.
Lump-sum taxation deals are still a thing. However they must be "fair".
https://www.efd.admin.ch/efd/en/home...-taxation.html
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  #39  
Old 23.02.2021, 12:15
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Re: The motivation for higher taxes in Vaud

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Isn't this an "unjustified tax benefit," which could potentially trigger Art. 129 para. 3 of the Constitution? For reference:



As far as I'm concerned, the Federal Government has never needed to invoke this article, though. My understanding was that the Cantons have voluntary opted to avoid such tax breaks.
"unjustified" is incredibly vague. A natural justification is that without this option very rich foreigners would simply choose to live elsewhere and the Kanton would get nothing at all.
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