Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21.02.2021, 11:13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Greece
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
softenggr has no particular reputation at present
Church tax in Jura

Hello,


I recently heard about the church tax that you have to pay in almost all cantons, and while I have googled extensively for what goes on in Jura, I haven't found anything clear, only https://www.jura.ch/DFI/CTR/Impots-s...la-source.html and https://www.deleze.name/marcel/philo/sortie/ju.html, which pretty much say the opposite (?).



During the registration at the commune, I declared Greek Orthodox, so I don't understand what I will be paying. If need be I can declare whatever necessary to not pay...



Does anyone know anything more?



Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 21.02.2021, 11:17
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Greece
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
softenggr has no particular reputation at present
Re: Church tax in Jura

Quote:
View Post
Hello,


I recently heard about the church tax that you have to pay in almost all cantons, and while I have googled extensively for what goes on in Jura, I haven't found anything clear, only https://www.jura.ch/DFI/CTR/Impots-s...la-source.html and https://www.deleze.name/marcel/philo/sortie/ju.html, which pretty much say the opposite (?).

I also found this:



Art. 141Sont assujetties à l'impôt ecclésiastique :a)les personnes physiques qui sont membres d'une Eglise reconnue et qui ont domicile ou séjour fiscal sur le territoire du Canton;b)les personnes physiques de la confession d'une des Eglises reconnues qui remplissent dans le Canton les conditions d'un assujettissement partiel;c)les personnes morales qui ont leur siège ou dont l'administration s'exerce dans le Canton;d)les personnes morales qui remplissent dans le Canton les conditions d'un assujettissement partiel.



in https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...uX-NmeWZGWLDXe
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 21.02.2021, 11:24
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,223
Groaned at 2,454 Times in 1,776 Posts
Thanked 39,317 Times in 18,533 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

Just declare "pagan" and you are good!

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 21.02.2021, 11:33
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Church tax in Jura

Quote:
View Post
During the registration at the commune, I declared Greek Orthodox, so I don't understand what I will be paying. If need be I can declare whatever necessary to not pay...
It's a general principal that church taxes are paid by everyone except those who declare themselves as having no religious belief and that the funds are distributed among all faiths. The majority, of course, would go to the main religions, and I can well understand that if you are a member of one religion you would resent paying into a pot of which only a very small proportion goes to your chose church.

It's been discussed here in the past, and I think it is possible, but not easy, to change your declared confession, but it could be seen by many as hypocritical, if you actually believe, stating that you're an atheist just to avoid a little bit of tax. How does your God view the practice of lying and denying your belief in Him/Her?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21.02.2021, 11:37
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,340
Groaned at 379 Times in 317 Posts
Thanked 14,599 Times in 6,749 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

In some Kantons they only list Roman Catholic or Reformed (protestant) so no lie if you are not a member of these churches.


I never knew that the Greek Orthodox Church is listed as one for the Kirchensteuer.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 21.02.2021, 12:36
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Greece
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
softenggr has no particular reputation at present
Re: Church tax in Jura

Quote:
How does your God view the practice of lying and denying your belief in Him/Her?
Did I ever say I am religious?


Quote:
View Post
In some Kantons they only list Roman Catholic or Reformed (protestant) so no lie if you are not a member of these churches.

I never knew that the Greek Orthodox Church is listed as one for the Kirchensteuer.

From the last attachment I posted, it really seems that only the Catholics and Protestants pay a church tax. Is this the case ?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank softenggr for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 21.02.2021, 14:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: na
Posts: 11,249
Groaned at 37 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 26,732 Times in 8,253 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

Quote:
It's been discussed here in the past, and I think it is possible, but not easy, to change your declared confession, but it could be seen by many as hypocritical, if you actually believe, stating that you're an atheist just to avoid a little bit of tax. How does your God view the practice of lying and denying your belief in Him/Her?
This has been discussed ad nauseum on other threads, but a quick re-cap:

By not joining a Swiss church one is not necessarily denying one's faith, merely choosing not to support or to join in the local Swiss version of that faith. The faith you adhere to and the local Swiss version of that faith can differ in views and practices, sometimes significantly. You may value one but not the other, there is really no hypocrisy in deciding not to register as a member of a Swiss church if you don’t feel aligned to it.



I am a Catholic and practice among kindred spirits whenever I am in other countries. But I am not a member of the Swiss Catholic church.

I made this choice because the local parish - the group who would get my church tax - promotes views I find antithetical to my understanding of the faith. I cannot in good conscience - heck I cannot in faith - support some of the things they do and say. Paying tax to the local Swiss parish would be hypocritical, as I do not espouse their interpretation of key issues.

If I encountered this situation back home, I'd simply not go to the local church and instead find a parish elsewhere more in line with my faith. That parish would get my financial support, because back home supporting one's church is done on a voluntary basis.

Because the Swiss church tax system leaves me no discretion as to which parish to support I decided to register as other. I am Catholic, but I am not a Swiss Catholic.

---

FYI, de-registering from Swiss religious affiliation is pretty easy, see here:
https://frei-denken.ch/kirchenaustritt

There is a site that will do the process for you, but be aware that there is a cost to use their service:
https://kirchenaustritt.ch
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 21.02.2021, 14:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 2,656
Groaned at 333 Times in 242 Posts
Thanked 2,853 Times in 1,428 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

Would be really interested Melon ''the group who would get my church tax - promotes views I find antithetical to my understanding of the faith. I cannot in good conscience - heck I cannot in faith - support some of the things they do and say.''

would you mind giving exemples? I know that in Switzerland attitudes even within the catholic Church, change from Canton to Kanton, even regionally.

Here, the Catholic Church is very much part of a strong eucemunical movement- with both the Protestant and Catholic Church work together, accept mixed marriages and funerals, etc.

In the UK, I remember the Sunday Church migrations- where people went to attend surrounding Churches because the preferred that Vicar, or to avoid women Vicars, or because one supported this, or that, or opposed it. Whilsts people from those surrounding Churches would drive to attend our local Church, because the Vicar was a strong opponent of womens' ordination. It was quite hilarious to watch.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at JackieH for this post:
  #9  
Old 21.02.2021, 15:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 63 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

Quote:
View Post
Did I ever say I am religious?





From the last attachment I posted, it really seems that only the Catholics and Protestants pay a church tax. Is this the case ?
Plus "Christian Catholic" in a good number of the Kantons, and Judaism in a couple. Nothing else, so Greek Orthodox would be exempt from church tax.

Why would you tell them Greek Orthodox unless you are religious??????
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 21.02.2021, 16:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,234
Groaned at 98 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 12,751 Times in 5,173 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

In short, the options are:
  • choose to pay this tax
    This will happen automatically, if you have checked the box of one of the religions that are officially recognised in your area. In this case, your money will go to your choice of the local Catholic Church, the local Reformed Church, in some municipalities to the local "Christkatholische Kirche", and in some more rare places also the local Jewish synagogue.
    or
  • choose, legitimately, to not pay this tax.
    To do that, one can simply register at the municipality and/or at the tax office as "Konfessionslos", or in some cases "other". This is an option for atheists and agnostics, for the confused and searching or for those who deem this all to be irrelevant, just as much as for believers who (as meloncollie set out above) do not agree with the way the local institutions are being run, as well as for believers of many other kinds, (including Greek Orthodox) and those who practice no religion at all, or any other religion besides those few that are formally acknowledged by one's municipality or canton.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 21.02.2021, 16:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 2,656
Groaned at 333 Times in 242 Posts
Thanked 2,853 Times in 1,428 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

As an aside, religion is still a very sensitive issue in the Jura. When the Canton was annexed (without asking the Jura people their opinion!) to Bern- in exchange for giving Vaud its freedom from Bern - the Bernese settlers arrived, took all the lands, and imposed the Bernese German language- in schools, business, judiciary, etc, etc. And their imposed their religion, a rather severe form to Protestantism. On a people that had always been French speaking and Catholics- the bitter tensions still exist today. (Congrès de Vienne 1814).


My father grew up in Neuchâtel Jura- and so did his father- but grandfather came from JU Jura in the 19C. Catholics were a tiny minority at the time, and right up to the big waves of immigrations, first Italians after 1st and 2nd W wars, the Spanish and Portuguese- and now in NE practicaly have parity- partly the reason for the strong ecumenism movement here.

When my father married a Protestant, it was a scandal! Divorcee with a child- oh horror. When I discovered that in fact our family came directly from Huguenot descendants- persecuted and tortured for their Protestant faith - the irony was just too much. Tried to discuss it with dad, but he just could not handle it, so dropped it.

Last edited by JackieH; 21.02.2021 at 17:01.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank JackieH for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 21.02.2021, 20:14
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 14,492
Groaned at 279 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 21,725 Times in 8,815 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

Quote:
It's a general principal that church taxes are paid by everyone except those who declare themselves as having no religious belief
The German word is Konfessionslos. In French "sans confession" I guess. This means without confession - i.e. not belonging to any specific denomination. Undenominational. Plenty of people aren't atheists, but are also without denomination.

By checking it you're not saying you're athiest, nor being hypocritical. Just being accurate.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 21.02.2021, 20:23
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,223
Groaned at 2,454 Times in 1,776 Posts
Thanked 39,317 Times in 18,533 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

I wrote a letter stating that 'I do not subscribe to your religion"

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 21.02.2021, 20:29
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,754
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 4,537 Times in 2,076 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

Since you can donate to charity and reclaim the tax, and most churches are also charities, the whole tax-based approach seems pointless.

Of course if they abolished it and churches had to get people to think about donating their income would plummet, so it's not likely to happen any time soon.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 21.02.2021, 20:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 63 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

Quote:
View Post
I wrote a letter stating that 'I do not subscribe to your religion"

Tom
... I subscribe to the church of Satan?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 21.02.2021, 20:51
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 63 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

I think (most of) Valais is the exception to the general Swiss rules as regards church tax. It's done by municipality not canton. Many (most?) Gemeinde only have a Catholic Church, and in that case the money goes 100% to the Catholic Church and you can't opt out.

Is that why ace1 had a different understanding to most of us maybe?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 21.02.2021, 22:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 63 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

Quote:
View Post
That's interesting; I didn't know that. Just found a huge wiki about Swiss church tax. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchensteuer_(Schweiz)

From there:
Die Waadt kennt überhaupt keine Kirchensteuern. Die anerkannten Kirchen werden aus den allgemeinen Steuern finanziert – die Kultusauslagen der anerkannten Kirchen sind also durch die allgemeinen von Kanton und Gemeinden erhobenen Steuern gedeckt.

Personen (juristische wie natürliche), welche nicht Mitglied einer anerkannten Religionsgemeinschaft sind, können den prozentualen Anteil ihrer bezahlten Gemeindesteuern, der für die Kirchen bestimmt ist, zurückfordern – gleiches ist laut Bundesgericht bei den Staatssteuern jedoch nicht zulässig.
Vaud does not have any church taxes at all. The recognized churches are financed from the general taxes - the cultural expenses of the recognized churches are thus covered by the general taxes levied by the canton and the communes.

Individuals (legal and natural) who are not members of a recognized religious community can reclaim the percentage of their municipal taxes paid that is earmarked for the churches - however, according to the Federal Supreme Court, the same is not permitted for (= cantonal) taxes.
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchensteuer_(Schweiz)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 21.02.2021, 22:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 63 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

Quote:
View Post
That's interesting; I didn't know that. Just found a huge wiki about Swiss church tax. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchensteuer_(Schweiz)

From there:
Die Waadt kennt überhaupt keine Kirchensteuern. Die anerkannten Kirchen werden aus den allgemeinen Steuern finanziert – die Kultusauslagen der anerkannten Kirchen sind also durch die allgemeinen von Kanton und Gemeinden erhobenen Steuern gedeckt.

Personen (juristische wie natürliche), welche nicht Mitglied einer anerkannten Religionsgemeinschaft sind, können den prozentualen Anteil ihrer bezahlten Gemeindesteuern, der für die Kirchen bestimmt ist, zurückfordern – gleiches ist laut Bundesgericht bei den Staatssteuern jedoch nicht zulässig.

Vaud does not have any church taxes at all. The recognized churches are financed from the general taxes - the cultural expenses of the recognized churches are thus covered by the general taxes levied by the canton and the communes.

Individuals (legal and natural) who are not members of a recognized religious community can reclaim the percentage of their municipal taxes paid that is earmarked for the churches - however, according to the Federal Supreme Court, the same is not permitted for (= cantonal) taxes.
Church / State Separation somewhat lacking there!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 21.02.2021, 23:31
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: CH
Posts: 128
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 99 Times in 50 Posts
besmegenis has earned some respectbesmegenis has earned some respect
Re: Church tax in Jura

Quote:
How does your God view the practice of lying and denying your belief in Him/Her?
If it is for saving tax, he said it's fine
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank besmegenis for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 22.02.2021, 09:59
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 14,492
Groaned at 279 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 21,725 Times in 8,815 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Church tax in Jura

Quote:
View Post
Church / State Separation somewhat lacking there!
Perhaps because this isn't the US and that concept isn't part of the constitution?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
church tax jura atheist




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jura Impressa J9.2 Acakoning Items for sale 2 03.09.2017 16:17
Church visits without paying church tax JOW Daily life 105 08.04.2013 17:51
New in Jura from Geneva HELP new girl in jura Introductions 18 13.09.2012 00:39
Hike in jura kimngmakerbull Social events 17 23.06.2012 19:09
Church Blessing for Church of England ClareWhitehouse Family matters/health 3 13.02.2011 21:17


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0