Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 23.02.2021, 19:38
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 35
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 31 Times in 17 Posts
Istcantabria has made some interesting contributions
Re: Buying property in Spain

Quote:
View Post
What about political stability in Spain? The country seems bit shaky?
Well, no good time for politics anywhere but apart for the frustration of having such a bunch of idiots in every party nothing too bad, or at least no worse than Italy and their continuous mess, France, UK Brexit/Scotland/Norther Ireland issues... US confrontational polarities... etc etc etc ...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Istcantabria for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 23.02.2021, 19:46
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Quote:
View Post
What about political stability in Spain? The country seems bit shaky?
I don’t think so . The days of instability are far in the past and I don’t think there are many who want to see those days back .

Even if something like Catalan independence happens , which I don’t consider very likely , I am sure it will happen in an organized manner without causing any instability or revolution .
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 23.02.2021, 19:56
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Quote:
View Post
How have you found price evolution in these last 12 months given Covid and Brexit? Do you see any Brits cashing out in EUR and willing to negotiate given exchange rates?
The property market tends to have a lag factor with causalities taking time to trickle through and be felt on the ground . Many expats in Spain have managed ti set themselves up with a residencia meaning they can stay . But there may well be quite a few who decide the time has come to pack their bags and leave. But I think many are still waiting before they sell . I definitely haven’t seen the market react yet.

Add to that, that propert prices have still a long way to go to recover to the levels they were at before the last crash , and I do think you should be able to get a decent place for a fair price .

In the Alicante area, but not Alicante city or its immediate surroundings , you can probably find a decent villa not too far from the sea for 150 to 250 K and an appartment for 100 to 150 K . Further south in some bits of Murcia for example you might knock one third to a half off those figures . Depending on the location .

On the other hand Alicante has an overall better infrastructure , hospitals , public transport etc , which may be a good thing to count upon for when you get older .

Of course if you move away from the coast and buy a farm and or something you can probably find a nice house with oodles of land for under 100 K .

On the other hand if you’re dreaming or one of the picturesque villas perched on a rock directly overlooking the sea , you won’t find much for under a million .
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 23.02.2021, 20:12
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

O , and don’t assume it’s British expats who are driving the market these days .

Russians and even Chinese are the ones putting big money on the table now.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 24.02.2021, 13:25
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

From what I understand, a large part of those expats owning houses in Spain and living there permanently already have a residencia or at least qualify for one. So these are not likely to be forced into selling out any time soon. At least not in large numbers.

What people are more worried about is that there are going to be more difficulties for Brits wishing to move to Spain in the future. As the older lot slowly die off or move into nursing homes, there won't be sufficient younger ones to push the demand for houses and so keep the prices up. This will of course be a problem for those who have been speculating on using the value of their property as a nest egg.

But this would be a longer term trend and we are still in early days and so much could happen between then and now.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 24.02.2021, 14:26
eyebeebe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pfäffikon SZ
Posts: 2,311
Groaned at 21 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,317 Posts
eyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Quote:
View Post
The property market tends to have a lag factor with causalities taking time to trickle through and be felt on the ground . Many expats in Spain have managed ti set themselves up with a residencia meaning they can stay . But there may well be quite a few who decide the time has come to pack their bags and leave. But I think many are still waiting before they sell . I definitely haven’t seen the market react yet.

Add to that, that propert prices have still a long way to go to recover to the levels they were at before the last crash , and I do think you should be able to get a decent place for a fair price .

In the Alicante area, but not Alicante city or its immediate surroundings , you can probably find a decent villa not too far from the sea for 150 to 250 K and an appartment for 100 to 150 K . Further south in some bits of Murcia for example you might knock one third to a half off those figures . Depending on the location .

On the other hand Alicante has an overall better infrastructure , hospitals , public transport etc , which may be a good thing to count upon for when you get older .

Of course if you move away from the coast and buy a farm and or something you can probably find a nice house with oodles of land for under 100 K .

On the other hand if you’re dreaming or one of the picturesque villas perched on a rock directly overlooking the sea , you won’t find much for under a million .
Where would one look for these properties? When I look on Idealista in the Muchavista to El Campello region, I‘m not seeing villas near the sea for 150-250k. Perhaps we have different ideas on what near the sea and a villa is though
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 24.02.2021, 14:38
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Muchavista is very expensive because it's essentially easy commuting distance from Alicante, it's on the tram system, the French school is there and other such reasons. Much of Muchavista is high rise. There aren't even that many villas left and more and more are being pulled down to build more high rise. I don't know if you would count villa communities such as El Font part of Muchavista (officially it isn't, but many estate agents seem to think it is). High rise isn't allowed there but it's an area where many of the doctors and lawyers from Alicante live and this clearly pushes up prices. Many of those villas have five or six bedrooms and almost all have a pool. They're a league or two above the average earner.

Personally I'm in L'Amerador, and I've seen several houses go over the last years for well under 250K, though of course there are all bells and whistles super villas costing 400K or more as well. There are several terraced houses in Alkabir presently on the market in the 100 to 150K range (the Spanish call them bungalows, which sounds odd to English speakers as they have two or even three floors). And remember these are asking prices. They will probably sell for less than that. If you move over to Lanuza things can get cheaper still, but personally that's not an area I like that much, but this is a question of individual taste I suppose.

Last edited by amogles; 24.02.2021 at 14:50.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 03.03.2021, 13:32
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Basel, Canton of Basel-Stadt
Posts: 17
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
zieglerjp has earned some respectzieglerjp has earned some respect
Re: Buying property in Spain

Quote:
View Post
After some attempts to invest in a property in Switzerland, I give up and I'm now thinking about getting a property in Spain, in Alicante.

My idea is to get a very very small house there, that small that hopefully I do no need a mortgage. Based on previous posts I am not the only one doing this, and I have some doubts about the process.

Do I need to have a bank account in Spain to get the property? Do you know if it is easy to get an bank account in Spain if you are not actually living there?

My money is currently in CHF, do I need to convert it to EUR somehow in this process? Any idea to avoid losing too much money on the conversion?

Anything else that I should be aware of, and to check when I find a property that I like? I just very worried of being scam in the process.
First of all, I would not invest in a country that I do not know, especially in a rural area. do you have an idea about vacancy rates? price forecasts? liquidity in that area? how are you going to exit the property? and now there is some nationalist upheaval in Spain, I'd say away from it. I invested a small amount in a property in Lucerne via Pillar. The 10.26% returns is obviously a poor marketing trick, you actually get about 6% in cash, and the rest is capital appreciation. Still not bad. Looked shady, never heard of them before, but I checked with my lawyer, all is legit. They said their projections are verified by Wuest+Partners, I so I called them too, LOL, to confirm.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03.03.2021, 13:37
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Quote:
View Post
First of all, I would not invest in a country that I do not know, especially in a rural area. do you have an idea about vacancy rates? price forecasts? liquidity in that area? how are you going to exit the property? and now there is some nationalist upheaval in Spain, I'd say away from it. I invested a small amount in a property in Lucerne via Pillar. The 10.26% returns is obviously a poor marketing trick, you actually get about 6% in cash, and the rest is capital appreciation. Still not bad. Looked shady, never heard of them before, but I checked with my lawyer, all is legit. They said their projections are verified by Wuest+Partners, I so I called them too, LOL, to confirm.
Capital appreciation of an unsold property is an opinion, rather than fact.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 03.03.2021, 16:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 2,724
Groaned at 345 Times in 252 Posts
Thanked 2,895 Times in 1,456 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Should be a good year to buy in Spain, as hordes of Brits who have been playing both systems have now been caught out, and will not be able to cheat re the 90 days anymore.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank JackieH for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 03.03.2021, 17:04
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Quote:
View Post
Should be a good year to buy in Spain, as hordes of Brits who have been playing both systems have now been caught out, and will not be able to cheat re the 90 days anymore.
Why would you have any sympathy for people evading Spanish tax?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03.03.2021, 17:18
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,563
Groaned at 71 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 2,923 Times in 1,058 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Say a Brit who does not live in Spain, meets a Spanish lady in Switzerland. They get married and move to Spain. Would the legal status of the married Brit be better than a normal vanilla Brit?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03.03.2021, 17:57
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Quote:
View Post
Say a Brit who does not live in Spain, meets a Spanish lady in Switzerland. They get married and move to Spain. Would the legal status of the married Brit be better than a normal vanilla Brit?
I guess marriage is a good way to get a legalized residency.

But there are many other ways too, including having a job (and lots of British expats in Spain do work, they're not all pensioners).

And then you can of course just circumvent the 90 say rule by going to Gibraltar or Andorra here and there, and using the opportunity to stock up on cheap booze.

And there is of course the gold-plated route by investing Spain. I think the sum is 500K these days. But I understand investment in real estate can be counted towards this sum, which is why there is such a run on the more expensive real estate, especially by Russians, Saudis, Chinese etc. There are plenty of lawyers specializing in crafty ways to help people qualify.

And then of course there is the option of just sitting it out and hoping you'll never get caught. The large numbers of African trinket sellers who ply the beaches are living proof that the police are not exactly interested in enforcing residency or employment rules to the letter, or going after lost taxes for that matter. And every so often the government just passes a mass amnesty meaning you can walk up to your ajuntamiento and legalize your situation.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 03.03.2021, 18:10
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Quote:
View Post
Capital appreciation of an unsold property is an opinion, rather than fact.
There may be an appreciation of value of land (but this is speculative, and strongly dependent on location). There is definitely no appreciation in the value of buildings themselves.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 03.03.2021, 18:15
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Quote:
View Post
Should be a good year to buy in Spain, as hordes of Brits who have been playing both systems have now been caught out, and will not be able to cheat re the 90 days anymore.
Many houses outside of cities or centres of population are second or even third properties. Just because people may be spending less time there does not automatically mean they are going to be desperate to sell. In fact there is already a glut of properties on the market owned by people who are not under any pressure to sell but would be willing to sell if somebody walks up and pay the right price.

Other factors are having a much bigger influence on the property market, including covid related travel restrictions and loss of disposable income as a result of covid.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 03.03.2021, 22:26
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Steinerberg
Posts: 9
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
staubli has no particular reputation at present
Re: Buying property in Spain

Quote:
View Post
First of all, I would not invest in a country that I do not know, especially in a rural area. do you have an idea about vacancy rates? price forecasts? liquidity in that area? how are you going to exit the property? and now there is some nationalist upheaval in Spain, I'd say away from it. I invested a small amount in a property in Lucerne via Pillar. The 10.26% returns is obviously a poor marketing trick, you actually get about 6% in cash, and the rest is capital appreciation. Still not bad. Looked shady, never heard of them before, but I checked with my lawyer, all is legit. They said their projections are verified by Wuest+Partners, I so I called them too, LOL, to confirm.
I saw their ads. Your "capital appreciation" will turn to depreciation very soon. My wife invested in Crowdhouse, I believe it's an Albanian company. Crowdfunding sucks, she gets her 5% but her property loses value every month, out of all places to invest she chose Aargau. This is a bad, bad idea. You can't exit it also. No wonder - who will buy a share in a lousy property
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03.03.2021, 22:43
eyebeebe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pfäffikon SZ
Posts: 2,311
Groaned at 21 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,317 Posts
eyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Quote:
View Post
Many houses outside of cities or centres of population are second or even third properties. Just because people may be spending less time there does not automatically mean they are going to be desperate to sell. In fact there is already a glut of properties on the market owned by people who are not under any pressure to sell but would be willing to sell if somebody walks up and pay the right price.

Other factors are having a much bigger influence on the property market, including covid related travel restrictions and loss of disposable income as a result of covid.
I can‘t believe there are so many properties for sale in the Alicante area we‘ve briefly discussed here. It‘s like every third one is for sale. It‘s very different to Switzerland. It makes me think that if you ever buy, you‘re going to struggle to sell in the future. This made me look at rental properties and there seems to be no sensible correlation between rent and sales prices, which suggests to me that the asking prices are way too high. Or turned around, you get a lot more for your money renting. Something for us to consider.

Quote:
View Post
I saw their ads. Your "capital appreciation" will turn to depreciation very soon. My wife invested in Crowdhouse, I believe it's an Albanian company. Crowdfunding sucks, she gets her 5% but her property loses value every month, out of all places to invest she chose Aargau. This is a bad, bad idea. You can't exit it also. No wonder - who will buy a share in a lousy property
Anyone who is getting 6% yield (as mentioned re Pillar) on real estate is going to be keeping that to themselves and not hawking it on Facebook!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank eyebeebe for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 03.03.2021, 22:59
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 63 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Quote:
View Post
I saw their ads. Your "capital appreciation" will turn to depreciation very soon. My wife invested in Crowdhouse, I believe it's an Albanian company. Crowdfunding sucks, she gets her 5% but her property loses value every month, out of all places to invest she chose Aargau. This is a bad, bad idea. You can't exit it also. No wonder - who will buy a share in a lousy property
You are making me think twice about buying a house here now
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 03.03.2021, 23:51
Izzt89's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Zurich, Zug
Posts: 152
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 352 Times in 139 Posts
Izzt89 has a reputation beyond reputeIzzt89 has a reputation beyond reputeIzzt89 has a reputation beyond reputeIzzt89 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

There is one point that nobody has touched upon -- insecurity & squatters (okupas, in Spanish). The socio-economical problems of the country (high unemployment rate, illegal immigration, loose legislative enforcement) translate into a high rate of theft (and/or attempted theft) on secondary residencies, as well as non-negligible number of cases in which organized illegal occupation of the houses (or chalets, or villas) occurs.
Believe it or not, it is not easy to evict the persons once they have entered your property, even if it is evident that it is a squattering situation, and what they are doing is illegal. It might take up to two years - if law takes its course-, or several thousand euros, to 'convince' them to leave, through specialized companies.
'Technically speaking', these organized bands target dwellings owned by banks (which have been seized due to lack mortgage payment defaulting), but not always...
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04.03.2021, 00:26
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZG
Posts: 5,697
Groaned at 126 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 17,137 Times in 5,439 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Buying property in Spain

Worth noting if you're a Brit that you will only be allowed to visit your Spanish pad 'visa-free' for up to 90 days in any 180 days.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buying a house in Spain cricketer General off-topic 2 06.01.2012 13:56
Buying property - tips on property surveyance Taffy Housing in general 2 19.05.2010 12:05
Buying Property in Baselland Queen Bee Finance/banking/taxation 2 27.04.2010 18:47
resident in CH own single property in spain, spanish tax return required? bill_door Finance/banking/taxation 4 12.01.2009 11:59
Buying Property Chalky1968 Housing in general 1 16.10.2007 19:47


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0