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  #61  
Old 06.03.2021, 14:09
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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Spain has a long history of regularizing people without the right paperwork through amnesties. Probably this will happen again. British tourists make such a huge contribution to the Spanish economy that any Spanish government that doesn't get its act together and find a way to make it easy for them is committing political suicide.

When I hear Brits saying, I'm leaving Spain because things are better in Bulgaria, it's sort of hard to blame Brexit or the EU even. Bulgaria is in the EU too, apparently.
Yeah, I don't know. Some people might have different opinions though. Even tourism has reached its limits if you ask me. There might be room for development here and there, in one country or another, but it's not wise to base your economy on that. Again, personal opinion here. Not on mass tourism at least. Perhaps it's the pandemic that has influenced the way I think now, but I remember the protests in Barcelona too.
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Old 06.03.2021, 14:35
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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Yeah, I don't know. Some people might have different opinions though. Even tourism has reached its limits if you ask me. There might be room for development here and there, in one country or another, but it's not wise to base your economy on that. Again, personal opinion here. Not on mass tourism at least. Perhaps it's the pandemic that has influenced the way I think now, but I remember the protests in Barcelona too.
I agree that tourism has gone over the top in places and that some of the high rise places are architectural crimes and that some tourists behave like ****. And you can't justify everything by saying, yeah, it earns money, so it must be fine.

But then not everywhere is like Benidorm and there are plenty of nice places still. And Spain has tightened down on planning and permitting laws and you can no longer just build anything anywhere as you used to.

Of course the economy needs to diversify and some places are having more trouble with this than others. And I think Spain on the whole has done better at diversifying and building the economy than many other peripheral parts of the EU. My earliest childhood memories of Spain were in the 1970s and that was a different world back then. You can't even begin to compare. So by and large and even if the naysayers like to deny this, Spain is one of Europe's biggest success stories. And this is not just tourist money but there has been development across the board and in all sectors and in all parts of the country.

But tourism is still and will long remain an important factor and its not going to go away.
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  #63  
Old 06.03.2021, 14:55
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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My earliest childhood memories of Spain were in the 1970s and that was a different world back then. You can't even begin to compare. So by and large and even if the naysayers like to deny this, Spain is one of Europe's biggest success stories. And this is not just tourist money but there has been development across the board and in all sectors and in all parts of the country.
It certainly is. In my view too, at least.

Back to investing in a house for holidays though...I am not that sure anymore. But seriously, each to their own. I'm pretty sure many people are much better at these sort of things than me.
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Old 06.03.2021, 17:03
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Re: Buying property in Spain

My first Romanian boyfriend, in the 60s- used to tell me about his trips to Ibiza- which had practically no tourism then.
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Old 06.03.2021, 17:05
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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It certainly is. In my view too, at least.

Back to investing in a house for holidays though...I am not that sure anymore. But seriously, each to their own. I'm pretty sure many people are much better at these sort of things than me.
The first time I was in Spain back in the 80s, I was horrified by the pollution and litter. Valencia had the dirtiest beach I had ever seen. Tampons and other waste products were floating right up to the shore. Now it's a blue-marked beach and one of my favourite cities.

Seriously well-done.
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  #66  
Old 06.03.2021, 17:24
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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My first Romanian boyfriend, in the 60s- used to tell me about his trips to Ibiza- which had practically no tourism then.
You had multiple Romanian boyfriends?
I guess the swinging 60's & all that sex, drugs & rock & roll.
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Old 07.03.2021, 10:25
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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I agree that tourism has gone over the top in places and that some of the high rise places are architectural crimes and that some tourists behave like ****. And you can't justify everything by saying, yeah, it earns money, so it must be fine.

But then not everywhere is like Benidorm and there are plenty of nice places still. And Spain has tightened down on planning and permitting laws and you can no longer just build anything anywhere as you used to.

Of course the economy needs to diversify and some places are having more trouble with this than others. And I think Spain on the whole has done better at diversifying and building the economy than many other peripheral parts of the EU. My earliest childhood memories of Spain were in the 1970s and that was a different world back then. You can't even begin to compare. So by and large and even if the naysayers like to deny this, Spain is one of Europe's biggest success stories. And this is not just tourist money but there has been development across the board and in all sectors and in all parts of the country.

But tourism is still and will long remain an important factor and its not going to go away.
Fully agree!
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Old 07.03.2021, 11:14
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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The first time I was in Spain back in the 80s, I was horrified by the pollution and litter. Valencia had the dirtiest beach I had ever seen. Tampons and other waste products were floating right up to the shore. Now it's a blue-marked beach and one of my favourite cities.

Seriously well-done.
I can imagine. As someone who has rented a house in France and Italy for a week or two in the summer for quite a few years now, I can advise OP and everyone else who wants to make money out of it to really look for a good location. It doesn't matter if the house is new, modern, was wonderfully decorated, it's the proximity to sea or other touristic objectives that matters. If it's in the middle of "nowhere" (metaphorically speaking) it will be very difficult to rent it out. If they buy it to enjoy life in the sun etc that's a different thing. So if you buy it because your life dream was to grow your own grapes and tomatoes, go for it. If you expect to make money out of it...that's a bit more complicated.
I have some aquintances who bought an apartment in Spain which they put in the Airbnb circuit and I guess it wasn't such a lucrative investment because they decided to sell it after a few years.

Last edited by greenmount; 07.03.2021 at 11:29.
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Old 07.03.2021, 11:48
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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I can imagine. As someone who has rented a house in France and Italy for a week or two in the summer for quite a few years now, I can advise OP and everyone else who wants to make money out of it to really look for a good location. It doesn't matter if the house is new, modern, was wonderfully decorated, it's the proximity to sea or other touristic objectives that matters. If it's in the middle of "nowhere" (metaphorically speaking) it will be very difficult to rent it out. If they buy it to enjoy life in the sun etc that's a different thing. So if you buy it because your life dream was to grow your own grapes and tomatoes, go for it. If you expect to make money out of it...that's a bit more complicated.
I have some aquintances who bought an apartment in Spain which they put in the Airbnb circuit and I guess it wasn't such a lucrative investment because they decided to sell it after a few years.
There are two fundamentally different types of rental. You can rent the house to a person or family residing their permanently. Or you can use it as AirB&B type vacation rental, renting it out maybe by the week or even by the day in the high season, with the house probably empty the rest of the year.

I know from a friend who rented his place out with Interhome that it wasn't very profitable. Firstly, the agency takes a huge cut of the money, and many tenants are not exactly careful and wear and tear is enormous. My friend says he was repainting the entire house every year and changing out all the furniture every two or three years. Handling the tax declaration isn't exactly a walk in the park either. Additionally you need a certificate from the government to be able to rent out. That costs money and the inspector will always niggle over something. Some people rent out illegally but the fine can be hefty when you get caught. You can maybe make good money in the summer, but the rest of the year demand is so low and prices accordingly that you can just about cover costs, if that. The neighbours also generally dislike short term rentals as many tenants think that just because they are on holiday they can make as much noise as they like and generally behave like a**holes.

Maybe if you live in the area permanently yourself and have several houses, you can bypass the agency, set up a website, and manage the properties yourself. In that case the financial situation might be different. Quite a few people actually do this. But then the question is, if you have the money to buy several houses free of mortgage, then aren't there better ways to invest it? Many estate agents will talk you into buying a property above your initial price range with the argument that you can make that money back through holiday rentals. I would advise anybody to be wary of such talk.

Add to that the general inconvenience of not being able to spend time in your own property spontaneously because its rented out, or having to lock away all your personal stuff. If I had to live wit that sort of inconvenience I would prefer to be a renter myself. No, I wouldn't go down the buy to rent path. At least not for holiday rentals.

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Old 07.03.2021, 13:38
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Re: Buying property in Spain

What is the purpose of purchasing this property? Is it for holidays, additional income/investment, retirement plans?
Much depends on this. I strongly recommend exploring options other than Spain if you haven't done so already.
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Old 07.03.2021, 18:59
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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What is the purpose of purchasing this property? Is it for holidays, additional income/investment, retirement plans?
Much depends on this. I strongly recommend exploring options other than Spain if you haven't done so already.
You know, some people (myself included) go to Spain because they like Spain.

I think, as a reason, that's as good as they can get.

What's the point of finding another place that's cheaper or whatever if I don't have the same level of attachment?

Would you be telling wintersport freaks that they should be looking into water polo instead because the cost / benefit ratio is better?
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Old 07.03.2021, 19:11
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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You know, some people (myself included) go to Spain because they like Spain.

I think, as a reason, that's as good as they can get.

What's the point of finding another place that's cheaper or whatever if I don't have the same level of attachment?

Would you be telling wintersport freaks that they should be looking into water polo instead because the cost / benefit ratio is better?
Sounds like a solution for some while the opposite for others.

"I'd like to learn to cook goulash but don't know how to do it, please help."."Why don't you fry chicken, problem solved!". Reminds me Borat. He meant well.
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  #73  
Old 07.03.2021, 19:22
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Re: Buying property in Spain

Spain is actually hugely varied - I love Spain, but certainly not the parts full of Brits, Swiss and Germans.
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Old 07.03.2021, 19:30
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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Spain is actually hugely varied - I love Spain, but certainly not the parts full of Brits, Swiss and Germans.
I think I prefer anywhere not overrun with Brits, Swiss or Germans. Due to restricted travel I have not heard CHD for over a month!
I was sitting at a table 2 years ago at a Resturant by the sea, 2 Swiss Germans asked if they could sit next to me in English, I said of course. 4 of their friends then turned up & asked if I would move from their table! I responded very rudely in Zurich Swiss German. Normal passive aggressive Swiss, 2 were Poleizi Zug, They backed down & paid for my lunch
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Old 08.03.2021, 08:13
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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Spain is actually hugely varied - I love Spain, but certainly not the parts full of Brits, Swiss and Germans.
I really really liked Barcelona (afraid to tell this to our dear friend who is from Madrid lol! Naaah, I'm kidding - he's too smart for these silly things and he knows my opinion) and the Canary Islands. I loved Gran Canaria, we visited it twice many years ago and rented a car each time, never stayed cantoned in the hotel, we moved around quite a bit and I simply loved it. It doesn't make any sense financially for us, but would like to have an apt. there. We even befriended a guy who was like this real estate shark (lol). But as I said, we have other priorities.
Oh, and I personally try to avoid any place that is full of loud crowds regardless of the "invaders" nationality. It doesn't add insult to injury if they're britons or germans, they could be from Patagonia as far as I'm concerned. Hard to find anything that isn't overrun by tourists in places you really like to visit. C'est la vie.

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  #76  
Old 08.03.2021, 08:52
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Re: Buying property in Spain

There is a big problem with squatters ("okupas") in Spain. Consider this before buying there. Leaving a property empty for any length of time can be a problem.
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Old 08.03.2021, 11:26
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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There is a big problem with squatters ("okupas") in Spain. Consider this before buying there. Leaving a property empty for any length of time can be a problem.
One should always be careful, but I think certain areas are more prone to this than others. I know quite a lot of people in Spain, both Spanish and foreign, and in all these years I have never heard of this happening to anybody I know personally or to any house in the vicinity AFAIK. I only once heard that it happened to a friend of a guy I occasionally chat with in a local bar. The house was a lonely farmhouse in the mountains and the owner was actually a crazy lady with a bit of a history of , ahem, substance abuse, who had inherited more money than she could handle, and she had actually given the key to the guy who occupied her house because he was supposedly going to take care of it while she was gone. Even so, she did manage to get him evicted and it didn't take all that long, but the house was badly trashed afterwards.
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Old 08.03.2021, 11:35
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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I think I prefer anywhere not overrun with Brits, Swiss or Germans. Due to restricted travel I have not heard CHD for over a month!
I was sitting at a table 2 years ago at a Resturant by the sea, 2 Swiss Germans asked if they could sit next to me in English, I said of course. 4 of their friends then turned up & asked if I would move from their table! I responded very rudely in Zurich Swiss German. Normal passive aggressive Swiss, 2 were Poleizi Zug, They backed down & paid for my lunch
Actually the "overrun with Brits" thing is only a couple of weeks in the Summer. The rest of the year even some of the bigger resorts can be quite civilized. I tend to avoid the heat of the Summer as it's too hot for me. The Spanish coast is just beautiful in the Winter or Spring.

There are several local restaurants that I patronize regularly when I'm there, and the staff and owners know me and come over and chat and offer me a free grappa or whatever. I rarely go to Spain in the holiday season but once there were external reasons and I had to be there. So we went to this restaurant one night and normally we would never dream of reserving a table as there is hardly anybody there. So on this day we hadn't thought of reserving. But when we arrived we saw all the tables were occupied and there was even a queue of people waiting to be seated. The waiter on duty was obviously a guy they only hire for the Summer as he didn't know us. He told us we couldn't be served tonight as we didn't have a reservation. Just as we were about to leave the other waiter saw what was going on, and he said, we always have a table for these people. And he went down to the basement to fetch a folding table. Much to the amazement of others in the queue who were less fortunate.
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Old 18.03.2021, 23:23
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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There are two fundamentally different types of rental. You can rent the house to a person or family residing their permanently. Or you can use it as AirB&B type vacation rental, renting it out maybe by the week or even by the day in the high season, with the house probably empty the rest of the year.

I know from a friend who rented his place out with Interhome that it wasn't very profitable. Firstly, the agency takes a huge cut of the money, and many tenants are not exactly careful and wear and tear is enormous. My friend says he was repainting the entire house every year and changing out all the furniture every two or three years. Handling the tax declaration isn't exactly a walk in the park either. Additionally you need a certificate from the government to be able to rent out. That costs money and the inspector will always niggle over something. Some people rent out illegally but the fine can be hefty when you get caught. You can maybe make good money in the summer, but the rest of the year demand is so low and prices accordingly that you can just about cover costs, if that. The neighbours also generally dislike short term rentals as many tenants think that just because they are on holiday they can make as much noise as they like and generally behave like a**holes.

Maybe if you live in the area permanently yourself and have several houses, you can bypass the agency, set up a website, and manage the properties yourself. In that case the financial situation might be different. Quite a few people actually do this. But then the question is, if you have the money to buy several houses free of mortgage, then aren't there better ways to invest it? Many estate agents will talk you into buying a property above your initial price range with the argument that you can make that money back through holiday rentals. I would advise anybody to be wary of such talk.

Add to that the general inconvenience of not being able to spend time in your own property spontaneously because its rented out, or having to lock away all your personal stuff. If I had to live wit that sort of inconvenience I would prefer to be a renter myself. No, I wouldn't go down the buy to rent path. At least not for holiday rentals.
It depends. We bought a small apartment in a skiing resort in Valais 11 years ago and since then it's definitely paid for itself and is now bringing ca. 7% annual return (after all expenses) from just a few weeks of renting to tourists per year. This season (both summer and winter) has been the best, I think we'll get ca. 18% (all Swiss guests this season). Oh and the price of the apartment has almost doubled since 2010, so seems it's been a decent investment.

We use mainly Booking.com, AirBnB and a couple of other sites for listing and a local agency for keys handover and cleaning, but sometimes we come and inspect and clean it ourselves. There are sometimes little things which the cleaning lady will not notice, like once a turn-knob on a microwave cracked rendering the oven unusable and only I spotted and fixed it before the next rental week. We can stay there and ski, etc. whenever we want, just need to block those dates on the sites. The guests tend to be responsible and tidy enough, we've had no problems at all. In the pre-covid era most guests were from Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland, Italy, etc. Might be different in Spain though...
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Old 18.03.2021, 23:38
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Re: Buying property in Spain

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I think I prefer anywhere not overrun with Brits, Swiss or Germans. ...
Liguria is not overrun with them and it's very close. Though in peak summer season it does get overrun by Italians

And I like how they never allowed unrestrained development, Spain-style of recent times. In Liguria no new building development is allowed at all, only modernizing existing structures!
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