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  #61  
Old 01.03.2021, 14:14
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

Phew, I found the 'identifiants pour votre declaration....' letter. They sent it way before the other info and I totally forgot where I put it.

Thanks to all for the (sometimes) helpful comments.
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  #62  
Old 01.03.2021, 14:23
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

"with practically no connection to Switzerland"

Well I spent my formative years there, still have family there, visit, hold two university degrees from Universite de Geneve and can speak/write French reasonably well. I was also eligible for a Swiss passport but left while the application was being processed.
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  #63  
Old 01.03.2021, 15:34
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

Apologies for my misapprehension that you were doing the tax returns of your family in Switzerland. If your BIL is handling your mother and sister’s returns, he could furnish the copy of the form in question or even handle your own formalities entirely.
Fair enough, if you “wouldn't do that to my mother” – take steps to renounce your inheritance from your father. Perhaps together with your sister. Both of you inherit what’s left at some point in the future and basically then the same question crops up between siblings – as do the formalities you are currently moaning about.
Hesitate to appear lacking in sympathy but you (partially) own property/have assets in Switzerland and have to deal with it, i.e. pay taxes*. Your Université de Genève degrees and reasonable knowledge of French should help your correspondence with the local authorities but are otherwise irrelevant.



*yes, you have to fork it up
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  #64  
Old 01.03.2021, 15:42
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

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I mainly came here seeking confirmation from people here who know others in the same situation as me wrt inheritance and being a never-permanent resident and non-citizen. I was convinced there must be a mistake, and so did my family. Every country has different inheritance and tax laws.
Just to put you once more straight (hate to do that, but it will help you in the future). It has nothing to do with inheritance, or being a heir. It is all about being an owner of real estate located in Switzerland. That's it. As long as your name is in the land registry you will have to pay tax.

You are a non-resident, which owns Swiss real estate, and you have no rental income. Not the most usual situation but neither is it very special nor unique. Many more are in the same situation.
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  #65  
Old 01.03.2021, 22:04
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

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Apologies for my misapprehension that you were doing the tax returns of your family in Switzerland. If your BIL is handling your mother and sister’s returns, he could furnish the copy of the form in question or even handle your own formalities entirely.
Fair enough, if you “wouldn't do that to my mother” – take steps to renounce your inheritance from your father. Perhaps together with your sister. Both of you inherit what’s left at some point in the future and basically then the same question crops up between siblings – as do the formalities you are currently moaning about.
Hesitate to appear lacking in sympathy but you (partially) own property/have assets in Switzerland and have to deal with it, i.e. pay taxes*. Your Université de Genève degrees and reasonable knowledge of French should help your correspondence with the local authorities but are otherwise irrelevant.

*yes, you have to fork it up
In the real world that is the same as just charging your mum rent equal to the tax paid. Which is essentially letting her live rent free. I don't know why that's something you "wouldn't do to your mother". And so much simpler and less awkward. Sometimes things just need to be said and it's easier when they are.

Do it the Swiss way - no need to actually physically speak about it just send an orange slip !
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  #66  
Old 01.03.2021, 22:06
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

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In the real world that is the same as just charging your mum rent equal to the tax paid.
Doesn't work like that here.

She is an owner with usufrutto, thus no rent.

Tom
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  #67  
Old 03.03.2021, 04:38
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

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Just to put you once more straight (hate to do that, but it will help you in the future). It has nothing to do with inheritance, or being a heir. It is all about being an owner of real estate located in Switzerland. That's it. As long as your name is in the land registry you will have to pay tax.

You are a non-resident, which owns Swiss real estate, and you have no rental income. Not the most usual situation but neither is it very special nor unique. Many more are in the same situation.
The US and Australia don't tax inheritance of money or property- unless the latter is being used as an investment property, hence my initial uncertainty. I think that is fair. The problem with the system in Switzerland vis a vis inheritance is that heirs are treated the same as wealthy property investors. I know they take into account one's overall financial situation, but with inherited money in the bank, they are also taxing inheritance multiple times- even if I keep the money there for my future retirement. In the US there is a baseline income for attracting taxes, at least for expats. This is not the case in Switzerland. In 2019 I was only able to find work in mid December, yet I was taxed the equivalent of nearly half my income for that year.

Last edited by canpemsin; 03.03.2021 at 04:40. Reason: taxed, not charged
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  #68  
Old 03.03.2021, 13:02
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

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The US and Australia don't tax inheritance of money or property- unless the latter is being used as an investment property, hence my initial uncertainty. I think that is fair. The problem with the system in Switzerland vis a vis inheritance is that heirs are treated the same as wealthy property investors. I know they take into account one's overall financial situation, but with inherited money in the bank, they are also taxing inheritance multiple times- even if I keep the money there for my future retirement. In the US there is a baseline income for attracting taxes, at least for expats. This is not the case in Switzerland. In 2019 I was only able to find work in mid December, yet I was taxed the equivalent of nearly half my income for that year.
As other have pointed out, your issues are not connected to inheritance tax. AFAIK Geneva belongs to the majority of cantons which does not tax spouses and direct descendants.

After your father’s death, you are now partial owner of real estate in this country and your (Swiss) capital and the theoretical income derived from the flat is assessed yearly. The involvement of your general income and other assets serve only to determine the tax rate/percentage used to tax your Swiss assets/income. Okay, I understand it’s a hassle to file all the other figures as well but look at it this way, if you are a wealthy property investor, you are paying more on the predetermined capital and theoretical income figures than the average Joe.



I’m afraid, I don’t understand “…only able to find work in mid December, yet I was taxed the equivalent of nearly half my income for that year” – the theoretical income (flat) remains unchanged. Clarification required: did you only work half a month in 2019? If yes, what does half of your income for that year mean? Perhaps you’re not an average Joe after all?
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  #69  
Old 03.03.2021, 13:31
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

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The problem with the system in Switzerland vis a vis inheritance is that heirs are treated the same as wealthy property investors.
Inheritance is not taxed, at least not in our canton nor most others.

Your PROPERTY is taxed, same as if you had bought it. How you acquired it doesn't matter.

Tom
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  #70  
Old 03.03.2021, 14:02
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

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Inheritance is not taxed, at least not in our canton nor most others.
Your PROPERTY is taxed, same as if you had bought it. How you acquired it doesn't matter.
Tom
By now I suspect that OP holds more assets (not just the flat) in Switzerland and doesn’t understand that capital and income are assessed separately each year. AFAIK capital is not taxed in the USA but capital gains (which mainly makes things more interesting for accountants/consultants) are.
Should you share this view, perhaps, as an ex-USian, you might care to point out basic differences in the CH/US systems and we might have been of assistance
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  #71  
Old 03.03.2021, 15:10
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

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Should you share this view, perhaps, as an ex-USian, you might care to point out basic differences in the CH/US systems and we might have been of assistance
Property is taxed as property in the US, but is taxed as capital in CH.

Swiss capital taxes are far lower than US property taxes.

As our mortgage (315k) exceeds the taxable value of our apartment (225k), we pay no tax.

HOWEVER, on our rustico, we pay around CHF 250/year, as it is not a primary dwelling.

Tom
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  #72  
Old 03.03.2021, 15:27
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

Have you received a letter telling you what the "valeur locative" is? I would expect that this is the only thing you need to include in your declaration unless you can reduce it through claiming any renovation costs on the apartment.

I have always found the AFC very helpful by telephone - if you call the main number you will need to ask to be put through to the Service Immobilier who deal with property taxes.
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  #73  
Old 03.03.2021, 15:41
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

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The problem with the system in Switzerland vis a vis inheritance is that heirs are treated the same as wealthy property investors.
If you don't live in said property, you ARE a wealthy property investor!

Tom
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  #74  
Old 03.03.2021, 15:52
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

Speak to Kellerhals Carrard in Geneva.

Kellerhals Carrard Genève SNC
Rue François-Bellot 6
CH-1206 Geneva

Tel. +41 58 200 32 00
Fax +41 58 200 32 11

They handle my tax affairs and are brilliant. Most importantly, they do not rip me off as has happened with other firms in the past.
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  #75  
Old 04.03.2021, 11:33
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

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If you don't live in said property, you ARE a wealthy property investor!
Tom
Where did all the ordinary Joes go...
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  #76  
Old 04.03.2021, 11:46
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

No, I do not own any other assets/properties in Switzerland. You have an active imagination!
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  #77  
Old 04.03.2021, 12:12
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

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Have you received a letter telling you what the "valeur locative" is? I would expect that this is the only thing you need to include in your declaration unless you can reduce it through claiming any renovation costs on the apartment.

I have always found the AFC very helpful by telephone - if you call the main number you will need to ask to be put through to the Service Immobilier who deal with property taxes.
Thank you for the suggestion, next time I call I'll ask for the Service Immobilier.

Yes, the AFC have provided me with the valeur locative and the charges et frais d'entretien. The tax forms ask for my salary and bank balances too.

I keep getting logged out, sorry if this reply has been posted already.
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Old 04.03.2021, 12:15
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

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No, I do not own any other assets/properties in Switzerland. You have an active imagination!
I have been accused of worse traits
Hope the collective wisdom of this forum has been useful. I'm sure clearly formulated follow up questions will be answered in further good will.
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  #79  
Old 04.03.2021, 12:16
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

Thanks, I've taken down their contact details in case I'll need them.
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Old 04.03.2021, 12:49
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Re: Non-Swiss, non-resident, inherited property and taxation?

Tom and LtSoftDrink As I don't have any property in the US, I don't know what the tax rules are around owning or inheriting property. I wouldn't know if total fortune is a factor in property taxes in the US, but I don't think it is in Australia.

Ok, the taxes were closer to 1/4 of my salary, working 12 hrs and half of a month plus keep in mind that the CHF is stronger than the AUD. I have more work hours now...

Still want to sell my part of the apartment in future. If I wanted an investment property it would make more sense to buy one here in Australia.
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