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  #61  
Old 14.04.2021, 17:34
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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Am not a cow! Don't like getting milked.
Warren Buffet don't like it either.
Ah! But Warren Buffet donates billions to total strangers ..... at least he sends me an email about once a month, expressing his desire to make me rich!

You do that too?
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  #62  
Old 14.04.2021, 17:43
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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And anyone who wants to earn interest on their deposits... SNB rates are negative. Be happy that you are not being charged interest. It already happens to HNW clients and slowly, but surely will creep downwards until the SNB makes rates positive, which I can‘t see happening until the ECB do, which I can‘t see happening until the Eurozone is back on its feet (or breaks up).
Most of us were brought up in a world where banks paid interest on cash deposits. That world effectively came to an end in 2008.

In the new world the 3 month CHF LIBOR interest rate has been -0.75% for >10 years. Banks have to find new ways to pass costs on to us which is why we are seeing new fees

This is driven by government policies globally to avoid a crash in asset prices and economic collapse, it is not the fault of the banks.

The impact is a transfer of wealth from prudent savers holding cash at the bank to subsidise people investing in assets like property and shares whose prices have both rocketed. If you aren't part of the latter group you are on the wrong side of government policy

Last edited by jim1; 14.04.2021 at 17:47. Reason: typo
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  #63  
Old 14.04.2021, 18:32
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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So! What's the alternative to PF?
I think if PF do raise their costs for me (not having over 25k) it might make me move completely over to Neon. I have a Neon account already but not taken the plunge to get my salary paid in...

Currently I'm "playing" with Neon, checking bill paying works etc. If anyone else wants to give it a go here's an inivite... you get CHF 10 and I get CHF 10 and free card:

Quote: Feel free to try it! Use my personal code VSG0SS when you open your account to get a starter credit and the card for free. Download the app here: onelink.to/neon

p.s. hope that doesn't break forum rules
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  #64  
Old 14.04.2021, 18:41
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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most of us were brought up in a world where swiss banks paid interest on cash deposits. That world effectively came to an end in switzerland in 2008.

In the new swiss world the 3 month chf libor interest rate has been -0.75% for >10 years. Swiss banks have to find new ways to pass costs on to us which is why we are seeing new fees

this is driven by eu government policies not globally but contenentaly to avoid a crash in asset prices and economic collapse, it is not the fault of the swiss banks.

The impact is a transfer of wealth from prudent swiss savers holding cash at the swiss bank to subsidize swiss people investing in swiss assets like swiss property and swiss shares whose swiss prices have both rocketed. If you aren't part of the latter swiss group you are on the wrong side of eu government policy
fify!!!
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  #65  
Old 14.04.2021, 19:45
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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Already know about moneyland. That's how I found the Crédit Agricole. Just wondering if anyone here is banking there and can recommend em?


As for CSX and co., not enthusiastic about banking via my mobile only collecting 0%. Bad enough that one has to do ebanking these days. No way I'm going to get an account where a magnify glass is required to read the balance. On top of that I don't fully trust android either where any other app has the potential to collect data. At least on a desktop one can use a secure browser.
I am with them, but I am not that active there.
Their online banking is simpler than PF, but they have all the basics.
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  #66  
Old 14.04.2021, 21:21
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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fify!!!
Do you think the situation is different outside Switzerland?
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  #67  
Old 14.04.2021, 21:35
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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Ooh, someone never had to buy one of those golden ink toner cartridges, where you want to print in black and white but the printer won't budge because you're out of CYAN. And then you use them so rarely that they dry out before you can use them a second time.
We're using the same printer since about a dozen years. The trick is to get one that uses 4 different cartridges instead of one for cyan-magenta-yellow and one black. Then as the machine claims a cartridge is "empty", I tape with electrical tape to fool the sensor. We don't print often, and the printer runs an automatic cleaning cycle once a week to keep the heads from drying out. With this little trick I change cartridges probably once a year.
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  #68  
Old 14.04.2021, 22:01
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

For example telco/tv services have bigger multiplier than salary increase too. So every small bit adds up, which eventually leads to a complain which starts with "but in my country ...."

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Feel free to complain all you like – but if [previous income 1x – previous bank fees 1x] against [current income 2x – current bank fees 10x] doesn’t leave you with more disposable income, you’re either an outlier or made a fundamental mistake
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  #69  
Old 15.04.2021, 09:15
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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Do you think the situation is different outside Switzerland?
More like the EU where CH usually tags along and decisions are always done last minute under pressure. However, good old USA will be leading the way sooner than later to higher rates.
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  #70  
Old 15.04.2021, 10:02
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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More like the EU where CH usually tags along and decisions are always done last minute under pressure. However, good old USA will be leading the way sooner than later to higher rates.
I would argue strongly that the changes in 2008 apply even more so to people holding their savings in cash deposits in USD (or GBP) than CHF

USDCHF has declined from 1.3 in 2006 to 0.92 today. In USD terms the increase in stock market and property is even higher than CHF. US property prices have rocketed in USD terms. The transfer of wealth is greater

US (and UK) banks may be paying positive interest rates it is an illusion
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  #71  
Old 15.04.2021, 10:19
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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I would argue strongly that the changes in 2008 apply even more so to people holding their savings in cash deposits in USD (or GBP) than CHF

USDCHF has declined from 1.3 in 2006 to 0.92 today. In USD terms the increase in stock market and property is even higher than CHF. US property prices have rocketed in USD terms. The transfer of wealth is greater

US (and UK) banks may be paying positive interest rates it is an illusion
Negative rates are also an illusion. Nobody is paying me to keep their money.
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  #72  
Old 15.04.2021, 11:11
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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I would argue strongly that the changes in 2008 apply even more so to people holding their savings in cash deposits in USD (or GBP) than CHF

USDCHF has declined from 1.3 in 2006 to 0.92 today. In USD terms the increase in stock market and property is even higher than CHF. US property prices have rocketed in USD terms. The transfer of wealth is greater

US (and UK) banks may be paying positive interest rates it is an illusion
Actually I still get positive interest rates.
So tiny that I tend to overlook them. But they are there.
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  #73  
Old 15.04.2021, 12:08
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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Negative rates are also an illusion. Nobody is paying me to keep their money.
Negative rates are a reality for banks when lending to other banks or to the SNB. This reduces their options to make profit vs. pre 2008 (post from Eyebeebe above)

Banks have to charge a spread to cover their risk and make profit. I'm not sure if the following was really your point but the reason they won't pay you to keep their money is because the risk of lending to you is higher than lending to the SNB
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  #74  
Old 15.04.2021, 13:23
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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Ooh, someone never had to buy one of those golden ink toner cartridges, where you want to print in black and white but the printer won't budge because you're out of CYAN. And then you use them so rarely that they dry out before you can use them a second time......
Laser Jet for free
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  #75  
Old 15.04.2021, 14:13
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

With empty toners. Laser toners are often as much as the printer.
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  #76  
Old 15.04.2021, 21:06
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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Perhaps he keeps them like Warren Buffet who has every tax declaration he ever made, over 70 years of confidential paperwork!
I'm not quite as old as Buffet but I have all my payslips, except from the very first tax year I worked when I was 16 and all tax returns.... It's a fairly full box of papers now!
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Old 15.04.2021, 21:14
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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I'm not quite as old as Buffet but I have all my payslips, except from the very first tax year I worked when I was 16 and all tax returns.... It's a fairly full box of papers now!
I have never had a physical payslip nor written a cheque.
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  #78  
Old 15.04.2021, 22:05
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

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I have never had a physical payslip nor written a cheque.
Do you also hang out near Zurich HB with your dogs, asking everyone "eh häsch mir en schtutz?"?
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Old 16.04.2021, 13:14
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

Consider Raiffeisen.

I use them for basic banking functions only, so your mileage may vary. Incoming salary, outgoing standing orders and individual transfers, cash withdrawal at their ATMs (no idea how much withdrawal at other ATMs costs), TWINT. No minimum deposit I'm aware of. Stuff generally happens electronically, but PDFs are available if you insist on using paper. IIRC Maestro card costs 40.- annually, no other costs I'm aware of, though some of this probably hinges on being a cooperative member.

Being a cooperative member also makes you a part-owner similar to holding one stock of an LLP. Basically, you buy an interest-bearing membership certificate for 200-500, interest is 4% in my case. The details of this depend on the individual local cooperative you become a member of. You can't buy any other amount than one certificate.

If you use their perks there's a tangible gain. You'll generally need a Maestro card (or certain other products that are accepted as evidence) to use the following:

Right now you can book (non-refundable) train tickets during the Asencion and Pentecost weekends with 40% rebate.

There's also rebates (typically 25-50%) available for the entire year on one-day skiing passes, concerts and events, and (all, I believe) football Super League sunday games. Certain museum entries are free. This may change annually, see link above.

This year's event list with rebates and/or member-exclusives, of course subject to covid restrictions, includes the Tutanchamun and Körperwelten exhibitions, Alicia Keys, Karls Kühne Gassenschau (en français), Faith No More, Slipknot, James Blunt, Sting, and many other concerts and open-airs.
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Old 21.04.2021, 14:14
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Re: PostFinance upping their fees

As far as I can see their fees are not really changing. I was paying CHF 5/month also in the past when amount of investments with them were < CHF 25000.


They are just trying to sell the "Smart" package for CHF12/month by automatically moving people to it. You can always switch back to original in E-Finance.


I never use postfinance card in any other banks ATMs. If you want a credit card I would avoid their overpriced ones and go for a free one from Migros or Coop.
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