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  #41  
Old 02.06.2021, 12:57
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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I don't think that's correct. Yes the Finpension Team are based in Lucerne, but the money is held in Schwyz. This is an email my wife got from them:

Dear Ms XXXXX,

For the year 2021 you can still deposit CHF 6'883.00.

To deposit money to the Portfolio 1, please use the following payment instruction:

Account number yyyyyyy
Bank Credit Suisse, Zürich
Beneficiary finpension 3a Retirement Savings Foundation
c/o Mattig Suter & Partner
6430 Schwyz
Reference number zzzzzzzzzz
You can also use this payment instruction for a standing order.

Kind regards,

Your finpension team

PS: Deposits are credited to the portfolio one day after receipt of payment.

finpension AG
Hirschmattstrasse 36
6003 Lucerne
Yes, you're right. I also corresponded with them today, and in terms of taxation they are in Swychz. Sorry for the misinformation earlier.
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  #42  
Old 04.06.2021, 20:11
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

gipfeli, what's the point in your efforts to reconstruct the MSCI World?

You seem to be leaving quite a few chips on the table. And with today's worldwide stock market correlation there's probably little to be gained from diversification into different world regions.
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  #43  
Old 05.06.2021, 17:44
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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gipfeli, what's the point in your efforts to reconstruct the MSCI World?

You seem to be leaving quite a few chips on the table. And with today's worldwide stock market correlation there's probably little to be gained from diversification into different world regions.
Which chips are those?

The point is pretty much the same as investing in a broadly diversified world market cap ETF (e.g. VT), as _most_ would probably be best off doing in their non-tax sheltered accounts too.

Definitely better than staying with the default strategy keeping 40% CH.
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  #44  
Old 06.06.2021, 03:28
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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Which chips are those?

The point is pretty much the same as investing in a broadly diversified world market cap ETF (e.g. VT), as _most_ would probably be best off doing in their non-tax sheltered accounts too.

Definitely better than staying with the default strategy keeping 40% CH.
Well, if you say so.

Good luck.
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  #45  
Old 06.06.2021, 09:40
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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Well, if you say so.

Good luck.
Note that I said explicitly "most".
You might be more skilled or confident and you might be lucky to end up better with another more focussed / less diversified approach.

But I'm curious what you meant precisely with those "left on the table"?
(Short of stock picking, which is a futile game for the majority) Would you place it all into an S&P500 and forget about the rest of the world?
Past != Future

I do believe that at least Emerging markets and e.g. SCV have a place in today's portfolios.
And I personally "play" a bit with some ETF tilts and individual stocks in my non-3a investments.

We are going way off topic here though.
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  #46  
Old 08.06.2021, 17:02
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

You can't do stockpicking in 3a

small > mid > big cap performance over the long term
As for the MSCI World, I see no use in replicating an index that "invests" 2/3 in any single country, the US in this case. Even more so when you get far from stellar returns, like the 5-6% in CHF that seem likely for MSCI World. Given the massive outperformance by the US, that means that the non-US portion is massively underperforming. Just like a good company doesn't necessarily make a good investement, an economically strong country doesn't necessarily make a good investment either (talking about the non-US part).

The reason for your coming here should in itself be a strong reason to take a closer look. Blindly ignoring the country, as if it was a reflex, may well hurt your 3a performance in the years to come.
Case in point the SPI Extra (SPIX, introduced in jan 1996), it delivered 10.4% over the 25 full years thru december 2020. You'll be hard pressed to find an index, let alone one that's available for 3a, that clearly beats this. Just for comparison, the SMI(TR) delivered 7.3% over the same 25 years, vs ~8.2% by the SP500TR in CHF.


(The SPI is basically "CH all stocks", with SPI = SMI + SPIX. However, the SPI family are performance indexes, i.e. they include dividends, whereas the SMI (the 20 biggest big-cap companies that meet the selection criteria) is a price index and doesn't consider divis. My calculations above are all inclusive dividends)
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  #47  
Old 08.06.2021, 17:16
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

Is there any possibility to do 3a pillar in EU? I am pilling up too many of them lately (and may need them later). Thx
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  #48  
Old 08.06.2021, 17:29
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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You can't do stockpicking in 3a

small > mid > big cap performance over the long term
As for the MSCI World, I see no use in replicating an index that "invests" 2/3 in any single country, the US in this case. Even more so when you get far from stellar returns, like the 5-6% in CHF that seem likely for MSCI World. Given the massive outperformance by the US, that means that the non-US portion is massively underperforming. Just like a good company doesn't necessarily make a good investement, an economically strong country doesn't necessarily make a good investment either (talking about the non-US part).

The reason for your coming here should in itself be a strong reason to take a closer look. Blindly ignoring the country, as if it was a reflex, may well hurt your 3a performance in the years to come.
Case in point the SPI Extra (SPIX, introduced in jan 1996), it delivered 10.4% over the 25 full years thru december 2020. You'll be hard pressed to find an index, let alone one that's available for 3a, that clearly beats this. Just for comparison, the SMI(TR) delivered 7.3% over the same 25 years, vs ~8.2% by the SP500TR in CHF.


(The SPI is basically "CH all stocks", with SPI = SMI + SPIX. However, the SPI family are performance indexes, i.e. they include dividends, whereas the SMI (the 20 biggest big-cap companies that meet the selection criteria) is a price index and doesn't consider divis. My calculations above are all inclusive dividends)
In my VIAC I've got

35% SPI extra
35% NASDAQ
30% US (all share I think) pension fund
2% SMI

You've given me some encouragement the heavy SPI extra portion won't be too much of a drag.
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  #49  
Old 08.06.2021, 17:30
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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Is there any possibility to do 3a pillar in EU? I am pilling up too many of them lately (and may need them later). Thx
What do you mean? In Euros? No if so, and the currency the Investment is denominated in doesn't really matter anyway. Id Just invest in what is likely to result in highest performance.
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  #50  
Old 08.06.2021, 17:43
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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What do you mean? In Euros? No if so, and the currency the Investment is denominated in doesn't really matter anyway. Id Just invest in what is likely to result in highest performance.
Yes, I meant in Euros

as far as my discussion with UBS went last year...-- the 'investment denomination' is pretty irrelevant -- my Euros would get invested (not sure if converted in CHF first and then back in EU or not), but what it is for sure is that what I would get from UBS would be in CHF.

So i would also be betting on Xchange CH-EU & EU - CH rates for those investment....(plus, of course, have to consider the commission cut that the bank takes every time there is a currency exchanged involved)
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  #51  
Old 08.06.2021, 18:38
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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Yes, I meant in Euros

as far as my discussion with UBS went last year...-- the 'investment denomination' is pretty irrelevant -- my Euros would get invested (not sure if converted in CHF first and then back in EU or not), but what it is for sure is that what I would get from UBS would be in CHF.

So i would also be betting on Xchange CH-EU & EU - CH rates for those investment....(plus, of course, have to consider the commission cut that the bank takes every time there is a currency exchanged involved)
Think of it like this. If you spend 6,000 euros or 6,800 francs now you are buying X% of an index. The index doesn't know what currency you used to purchase the initial investment.

Your currency exposure is not (only) CHF/EUR, but dependent on what you are invested in.

Taking my example a few posts above: I have 35% in Swiss small caps - the predominant (but not only) exposure for that investment would be to CHF as small caps are in general domestically focussed.

I've also got 60% in the US / NASDAQ. These companies are tilted large-cap and so sell all over the world, but naturally will be somewhat US focussed. So I've got a high dollar exposure, but also a slight exposure to other currencies, yen, pound, euro etc.

All in all, it's better just to forget about currencies when investing in most cases. Exceptions might be if you invest in emerging markets with less predictable currencies, or in small caps in a foreign country (eg of you invested in UK small caps you would be picking up a large GBP exposure). For globally diversified investments and developed country large caps don't worry about it.
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  #52  
Old 09.06.2021, 00:55
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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In my VIAC I've got

35% SPI extra
35% NASDAQ
30% US (all share I think) pension fund
2% SMI

You've given me some encouragement the heavy SPI extra portion won't be too much of a drag.
I see no reason to assume all that much direct USD exposure without corresponding payback. Let the CFOs handle the currency risk, they're the experts not me, and paid for already. Plus, the majority of my investments outside of pillars 2 and 3a are already in USD.

40% SPIX
15% SP500
20% Nasdaq
25% CSIF World ex CH Small Cap

My preference for the SPIX may well disappear, now that the framework agreement with the EU is dead. But that'll take at least a few years to become visible, if it does indeed have all that much of an effect. If that happens I see me increase the other small cap, provided it continues to shine.
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Taking my example a few posts above: I have 35% in Swiss small caps - the predominant (but not only) exposure for that investment would be to CHF as small caps are in general domestically focussed.
Small cap in a very small country can still mean a relatively large cap. The SPIX dropped 18.4% in 2011, presumably due to the Euro crises, vs -3.6% for the SMI(TR). That didn't repeat in 2015, when the Euro dropped 10-15% after the SNB lifted the exchange rate ceiling, perhaps the companies had learned their lesson in 2011.
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  #53  
Old 16.07.2021, 15:34
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

Hi,
I have opened an account with (ZKB) Frankly for one of my 3a recently, and I can recommend it (I'm not paid by them . Everything online, client-friendly, rather low cost structure, and you can choose between different risk profiles, and within those, between an active and a passively managed product (ETF). I went for the most aggressive one, however Im going to time it myself, i.e. depending on the macroeconomic conditions, I decide how much exposure I want to have (between 0 and 100%)
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  #54  
Old 16.07.2021, 16:02
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

I haven't read all the replies but FWIW, I use VIAC and am very happy. For about 5 years I used the Credit Suisse Mixta 45 product but it never did much for me. Last November I switched to VIAC, chose a range of global ETFs / trackers and am 25% to the good after 8 months which is far, far better than anything I got from Credit Suisse. Of course, there's no guarantee that this rate of return will continue -- in fact it probably won't -- but given that my Pillar 3A isn't a huge amount in the big scheme of things, I'm happy to stick with VIAC.
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Old 16.07.2021, 18:00
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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I haven't read all the replies but FWIW, I use VIAC and am very happy. For about 5 years I used the Credit Suisse Mixta 45 product but it never did much for me. Last November I switched to VIAC, chose a range of global ETFs / trackers and am 25% to the good after 8 months which is far, far better than anything I got from Credit Suisse. Of course, there's no guarantee that this rate of return will continue -- in fact it probably won't -- but given that my Pillar 3A isn't a huge amount in the big scheme of things, I'm happy to stick with VIAC.
And yet the return on my CS Mixta 75 that I opened at the same time as my VIAC is broadly similar. You aren’t comparing apples with even another fruit when you compare two different timeframes and different asset mixes.
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