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Old 15.04.2021, 20:09
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3a pillar vs personal investing

Hi,

In a family where both parents are working you can easily cross the taxation border of 120000 chf a year. Then it arises questions about 3a pillar to deduct those costs.

The thing is, looking at interest rates - these are almost non-existent. So if you put on 3a pillar, but your money is not on the stocks it basically is losing value from inflation. Am I right here?

So what's a practical solution in that case? 3a pillar only with companies that allow really high amount of percentage in stocks?

Otherwise, I believe it would be better to put your money on some robo-advisors at least. The interest rate would be higher.

What's the practical approach here for the people who believe, that money needs always to work?
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Old 15.04.2021, 20:14
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

Minimum you can do is investing with bank or other financial institutions in their products. For instance, CS offers different risk levels tied to your investment depending on what you can stomach. Many EF’s threads on it here.
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Old 15.04.2021, 21:04
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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Hi,

In a family where both parents are working you can easily cross the taxation border of 120000 chf a year. Then it arises questions about 3a pillar to deduct those costs.

The thing is, looking at interest rates - these are almost non-existent. So if you put on 3a pillar, but your money is not on the stocks it basically is losing value from inflation. Am I right here?

So what's a practical solution in that case? 3a pillar only with companies that allow really high amount of percentage in stocks?

Otherwise, I believe it would be better to put your money on some robo-advisors at least. The interest rate would be higher.

What's the practical approach here for the people who believe, that money needs always to work?
Finpension - 100% in world ex-ch quality pension fund. Either that or equity us blue or a mixture.
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Old 15.04.2021, 22:32
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

I have my 3 pillars accounts with Viac and am happy! Good return and interface and free life or disability insurance with it.
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Old 15.04.2021, 23:56
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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Finpension - 100% in world ex-ch quality pension fund. Either that or equity us blue or a mixture.
So which one then? Finpension or Viac? Is there a really independent comparison/ranking of these? I also heard good opinions about "frankly"
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Old 16.04.2021, 07:38
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

In my case I got 5 pillars accounts with Viac. 2 custom etf strategy and 3 with Global100 strategy. I am happy with it and the etf choice are much better than the BCGE funds where I used to have my pillars. Pillars fees do not exceed 0,50%+ some etf fees. A bargain compare to classic banks.
I got lazy but you could open 1 account in viac, finpension and frankly and compare their behaviour in the long run.
You better max pillar 3a each year to reduce your wealth tax.
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Old 16.04.2021, 07:55
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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In my case I got 5 pillars accounts with Viac. 2 custom etf strategy and 3 with Global100 strategy. I am happy with it and the etf choice are much better than the BCGE funds where I used to have my pillars. Pillars fees do not exceed 0,50%+ some etf fees. A bargain compare to classic banks.
I got lazy but you could open 1 account in viac, finpension and frankly and compare their behaviour in the long run.
You better max pillar 3a each year to reduce your wealth tax.
This is exactly what I am doing this year. Will open several accounts and compare ...

I got the idea by reading these reviews: https://thepoorswiss.com/?s=third+pillar

Thing is, depending on the Canton, you might be limited to the number of accounts you can withdraw each year. Several Cantons see the withdrawal retirement assets in stages as a big no no and are thinking of limiting 3rd pillar withdrawals to 1 (meaning all accounts will have to be withdrawn the same year). Nothing definitive yet, but depending on how old you are, so many things could change before we reach retirement!
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Old 16.04.2021, 08:41
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

Might find this list helpful.
https://www.vermoegenszentrum.ch/rat...ftendepot.html
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Old 16.04.2021, 11:21
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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You better max pillar 3a each year to reduce your wealth tax.
You actually max it out to reduce income tax which is much more impactful!
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Old 17.04.2021, 15:18
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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You actually max it out to reduce income tax which is much more impactful!
If you have a 30 year horizon it is not.
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Old 16.04.2021, 16:16
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

Hi, nice to meet you, I'm Christian and I'm new in the blog.
That's my fifth year in Zurich and I don't have the 3a pillar.
I prefer to "invest" money on my self, and I know that advisors don't explain the 3a pillar as an investment but everybody know that we'll leave them blocked for several years, 20/30 ? we don't know exactly.
Personally I prefer to control my "capital" and decide how to invest it.
Otherwise, the 3a pillar it's a perfect way to "safe" your retirement.
Do you like to play with moneys, or you prefer that somebody plays for you ?

Thank you very much, and sorry for my mistakes, I'm trying to improve my English, and this is one way to do that!
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Old 16.07.2021, 16:02
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

I haven't read all the replies but FWIW, I use VIAC and am very happy. For about 5 years I used the Credit Suisse Mixta 45 product but it never did much for me. Last November I switched to VIAC, chose a range of global ETFs / trackers and am 25% to the good after 8 months which is far, far better than anything I got from Credit Suisse. Of course, there's no guarantee that this rate of return will continue -- in fact it probably won't -- but given that my Pillar 3A isn't a huge amount in the big scheme of things, I'm happy to stick with VIAC.
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Old 16.07.2021, 18:00
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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I haven't read all the replies but FWIW, I use VIAC and am very happy. For about 5 years I used the Credit Suisse Mixta 45 product but it never did much for me. Last November I switched to VIAC, chose a range of global ETFs / trackers and am 25% to the good after 8 months which is far, far better than anything I got from Credit Suisse. Of course, there's no guarantee that this rate of return will continue -- in fact it probably won't -- but given that my Pillar 3A isn't a huge amount in the big scheme of things, I'm happy to stick with VIAC.
And yet the return on my CS Mixta 75 that I opened at the same time as my VIAC is broadly similar. You aren’t comparing apples with even another fruit when you compare two different timeframes and different asset mixes.
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Old 03.08.2021, 21:27
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

I played around with opening a finpension. Did not have the intention to go all the way but in 5 minutes the account was opened. It’s a little concerning to see that they require no ID or any kind of documents. (passport, residence permit….) I thought there were know your customer regulations.
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Old 03.08.2021, 21:39
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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I played around with opening a finpension. Did not have the intention to go all the way but in 5 minutes the account was opened. It’s a little concerning to see that they require no ID or any kind of documents. (passport, residence permit….) I thought there were know your customer regulations.
typically they get you on the way out when you try to withdraw the funds.
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Old 04.08.2021, 09:11
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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And yet the return on my CS Mixta 75 that I opened at the same time as my VIAC is broadly similar. You aren’t comparing apples with even another fruit when you compare two different timeframes and different asset mixes.
My wife‘s Vitainvest at UBS has returned 31% since March 2020.
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Old 04.08.2021, 09:18
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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My wife‘s Vitainvest at UBS has returned 31% since March 2020.
When did she invest & what is the return since inception is more interesting.
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Old 04.08.2021, 13:16
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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My wife‘s Vitainvest at UBS has returned 31% since March 2020.
Whilst the SP500 and Nasdaq have c. doubled...
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Old 04.08.2021, 09:59
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

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And yet the return on my CS Mixta 75 that I opened at the same time as my VIAC is broadly similar. You aren’t comparing apples with even another fruit when you compare two different timeframes and different asset mixes.
Mine was CS Mixta 45 which was the highest percentage of stocks I could include when I bought it. Perhaps the 75% version is more recent? Yes, I'm comparing two different asset mixes but that's the point -- I couldn't make a choice of assets when I bought the Mixta 45 whereas with VIAC I have quite a range of funds, sectors, and geographies, and can choose my own percentages. Anyway, the Mixta 45 did indeed go up in value over the period and was much better than my first couple of years of 3A when the pot was in low-interest cash. But it was still slower than I hoped and am glad that I've switched to VIAC. Finpension sounds good as well but I won't switch from where I am as I'm not far from pension age.
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Old 16.07.2021, 15:34
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Re: 3a pillar vs personal investing

Hi,
I have opened an account with (ZKB) Frankly for one of my 3a recently, and I can recommend it (I'm not paid by them . Everything online, client-friendly, rather low cost structure, and you can choose between different risk profiles, and within those, between an active and a passively managed product (ETF). I went for the most aggressive one, however Im going to time it myself, i.e. depending on the macroeconomic conditions, I decide how much exposure I want to have (between 0 and 100%)
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