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Old 19.04.2021, 11:53
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Need to move money - Negative interests

Hi !

my bank in the Netherlands will apply , starting from July, negative interests ( -0.5%) to my primary bank account so I am considering to move the money(liquidity) somewhere else.

I posted this message to get some Ideas about what I can do.

The options I have in mind are:
1 - move them to Transferwise ( I still have to verify whether is possible since the amount of money is above 100K)

2 - open a Euro deposit here in CH ( I don't like it very much since the fees could become very high if I move back to Europe)

3 - open some kind of deposit account with a european(?) brokerage agent so I could even decide to invest in some kind of very low risk fund/set of funds. I thought about Interactive Brokers but I heard it is complicated so perhaps other companies in Europe would be preferred (Bink for example?).

4 - find a good consultant and ask him what to do. At the moment I have no contacts.

Notes:
- I am European citizien and I might move back in the EU since I will be unmployed soon.
- the money currency is Euro,
- I don't care if the new account doesn't have (positive) interest rate applied.
- considering that we are talking about 95% of my capital, I would need to keep the risks low.

Ideas/advices are welcome!
Thanks

Last edited by marcofbbr; 19.04.2021 at 12:50. Reason: added details
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Old 19.04.2021, 11:58
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

Seems a lot of the Dutch banks are trying to get rid of Dutch abroad who still have bank accounts.


I have a EUR account here and another account with a German bank. Fees are negligible.
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Old 19.04.2021, 12:03
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

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Hi !

my bank in the Netherlands will apply , starting from July, negative interests ( -0.5%) to my primary bank account so I am considering to move the money somewhere else.

I posted this message to get some Ideas about what I can do.

The options I have in mind are:
1 - move them to Transferwise ( I still have to verify whether is possible since the amount of money is above 100K)

2 - open a Euro deposit here in CH ( I don't like it very much since the fees could become very high if I move back to europe)

3 - open some kind of deposit account with a european(?) brokerage agent so I could even decide to invest. I thought about Interactive Brokers but I heard it is complicated.

Notes:
- I am European citizien and I might move back in the EU since I will be unmployed soon.
- the money currency is Euro,
- I don't care if the new account doesn't have (positive) interest rate applied.
- considering that we are talking about 95% of my capital, I would need to keep the risks low.

Ideas/advices are welcome!
Thanks
I don't see any issues with a 100k transactions, sometimes you will be asked a few questions, I have found 70-80k generally go through unless sending to Jersey which is considered higher risk.
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Old 19.04.2021, 12:13
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

Cash?

Tom
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Old 19.04.2021, 12:16
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

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Cash?

Tom
it's liquidity, not invested.

Last edited by marcofbbr; 19.04.2021 at 12:42.
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Old 19.04.2021, 12:18
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

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Hi !

my bank in the Netherlands will apply , starting from July, negative interests ( -0.5%) to my primary bank account so I am considering to move the money somewhere else.

I posted this message to get some Ideas about what I can do.

The options I have in mind are:
1 - move them to Transferwise ( I still have to verify whether is possible since the amount of money is above 100K)

2 - open a Euro deposit here in CH ( I don't like it very much since the fees could become very high if I move back to europe)

3 - open some kind of deposit account with a european(?) brokerage agent so I could even decide to invest. I thought about Interactive Brokers but I heard it is complicated.

Notes:
- I am European citizien and I might move back in the EU since I will be unmployed soon.
- the money currency is Euro,
- I don't care if the new account doesn't have (positive) interest rate applied.
- considering that we are talking about 95% of my capital, I would need to keep the risks low.

Ideas/advices are welcome!
Thanks
Open an account in Germany, check if this is possible. Or in Belgium depending where you are closer. I know for example you can open an EUR account at HSBC in France if you live in the EU (but outside of France). They charge fee for the ATM card but nothing else.

Interactive brokers is an option. They apply negative interest rate only if EUR cash is > 100,000. However, if they go bankrupt it will be difficult to get back the cash (hopefully this won't happen). If you are looking to buy European stocks then this option could work well.

I wouldn't move EUR cash to CH as banking in CH usually comes with lots of fees.

It is a difficult time now as EUR has negative interest rate from the ECB and more banks will start charging fees as time passes.
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Old 19.04.2021, 12:26
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

Cash, buried in the back yard.

Tom
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Old 19.04.2021, 12:28
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

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Cash gold, buried in the back yard.

Tom
Fixed that for you.
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Old 19.04.2021, 12:29
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

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Open an account in Germany, check if this is possible. Or in Belgium depending where you are closer. I know for example you can open an EUR account at HSBC in France if you live in the EU (but outside of France). They charge fee for the ATM card but nothing else.

Interactive brokers is an option. They apply negative interest rate only if EUR cash is > 100,000. However, if they go bankrupt it will be difficult to get back the cash (hopefully this won't happen). If you are looking to buy European stocks then this option could work well.

I wouldn't move EUR cash to CH as banking in CH usually comes with lots of fees.

It is a difficult time now as EUR has negative interest rate from the ECB and more banks will start charging fees as time passes.
Post finance was always good value for a Euro account.
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Old 19.04.2021, 12:31
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

EUR in ch wil get higher fees as soon as you move abroad, iirc 25 chf per month at postfinance. But until you are here it's a good option.
Brokers are not banks, nor is wise afaik, so you don't even have the 100k protection (or in general, the same level of likeliness that the state will try to save the institution).

Using IB for storage is not free either.
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Old 19.04.2021, 13:17
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

If I'm not mistaken, 100k for transferwise (wise now) is about the guarantee amount, not 'what you're allowed to have/transfer'.

I don't like negative rates, I mean, one thing is fixed bank fee, but percentage, I just don't like that.
I mean, it's not like they need storage space for it and costs that could come with it, it's just one variable in one program. Program is still there no matter if I put 1 eur or one million there.

Also, double check retrieval conditions. I've seen that some bank have limits on allowed amounts for cashing out, I didn't check further if there are limits for transactions as well, but you definitely don't want to be stuck with a bank which says that you're not allowed to do more than 10k transfers per month or something like that.
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Old 19.04.2021, 13:32
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

UBS (& the alike) will start also imposing negative interest rates this summer in EU accounts over a limit here in CH (idem for CHF), So I guess PostFinanz will also do...

I am seriously considering Gold (or Platinum) in backyard. Problem is full of moles. The real ones ;-)
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Old 19.04.2021, 13:53
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

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I am seriously considering Gold (or Platinum) in backyard. Problem is full of moles. The real ones ;-)
They won't eat it, and since it's not soft, they cannot bite and drag it, so only risk is if they dig a hole below and ti falls down.
So, put your bars in some sturdy bigger box, I doubt moles would see that as a challenge to dig huge hole out of spite
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Old 19.04.2021, 13:54
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

we can try finding a good spot in nearby forest if you want. I'll help with digging

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UBS (& the alike) will start also imposing negative interest rates this summer in EU accounts over a limit here in CH (idem for CHF), So I guess PostFinanz will also do...

I am seriously considering Gold (or Platinum) in backyard. Problem is full of moles. The real ones ;-)
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Old 19.04.2021, 14:46
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

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Seems a lot of the Dutch banks are trying to get rid of Dutch abroad who still have bank accounts.
the negative interest rates are valid for everybody , not just those living abroad (I am not even Dutch, but I worked there annd still have a bank account). As somebody else already said, the same could happen in CH and the other banks outside CH as well.

ABN-AMRO (Dutch Bank) started applying negative interest with a threshold of 2.5M on year ago, went down to 500K euros after 6 months, now it is 150K .... and I suppose it could go lower.

Last edited by marcofbbr; 19.04.2021 at 15:09.
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Old 19.04.2021, 15:21
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

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I am seriously considering Gold (or Platinum) in backyard. Problem is full of moles. The real ones ;-)
Platinum has the disadvantage over gold in that you pay VAT so you have an immediate 7.7% performance hit (probably haven't calculated that right but...).

In terms of logistics: EUR 100'000 is approx. 2111grammes of gold, which would be a cube of gold with the dimensions 4.78cm*4.78cm*4.78cm. Would make a nice paperweight for the desk...
... or you could try this https://shop.degussa-goldhandel.de/2...erbox-gepraegt
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Old 19.04.2021, 15:34
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

Maybe look into N26. It's a German bank with a branch in CH where you get a EUR account. You would need to check if you can transfer from an NL account.
I have an account with them but paid into it from a CH account so not sure.
See https://n26.com/en-eu for details
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Old 19.04.2021, 15:40
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

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Platinum has the disadvantage over gold in that you pay VAT so you have an immediate 7.7% performance hit (probably haven't calculated that right but...).

In terms of logistics: EUR 100'000 is approx. 2111grammes of gold, which would be a cube of gold with the dimensions 4.78cm*4.78cm*4.78cm. Would make a nice paperweight for the desk...
... or you could try this https://shop.degussa-goldhandel.de/2...erbox-gepraegt
Somebody came up with a technology named bills, 1000 CHF bills. http://institutions.ville-geneve.ch/...et-de-1000-br/

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What is the weight of a million Swiss francs in 1000 notes?

"A 10-centimeter stack of 1000-franc notes is worth CHF 1 million, weighs one kilogram and has a volume of 1.3 liters."

Thus, knowing that it takes 1000 banknotes of 1000 francs to obtain 1 million, 1 banknote of 1000 francs would weigh 1 gram, which corresponds to the figures that can be found for banknotes of 500 euros and 100 dollars.

In terms of the volume occupied by 1 million Swiss francs composed of 1000 Swiss francs banknotes, this would correspond here to a carton of milk,
It's a bit sad that 1 million CHF is not enough to fill out a 20-30L duffel bag like in the movies these days. Not even the archetypal attaché briefcase in 70s and 80s movies.

After knowing this, I'm tempted to pay my next car in cash and fulfill a childhood fantasy. A normal letter envelope (C5/6) should be enough to hold the bills hahaha
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Old 19.04.2021, 15:52
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

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Post finance was always good value for a Euro account.
I just had a chat at the phone with PostFinance and they told me that negative interest are already imposed (!??!?!) to an extent of 0.75% after a certain threshold (something above 100K or 250K... I didn't take notes)
When I tried to get more details the operator redirected me to a face to face consultation.
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Old 19.04.2021, 16:06
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Re: Need to move money - Negative interests

avoid the problem by spending it!
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