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  #61  
Old 10.05.2021, 12:13
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Re: Dogecoin

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However with stock valuations you are discounting the future cash flows, Cryptos have zero future cash flows so zero intrinsic value. It's hoping a greater fool will pay more.
Its very difficult to draw a correlation to the replacement of banking systems and settlements processes as a source of future cash flows (and other use cases like digital contracts) but there is a body of growing evidence it could work and happen. not there yet
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  #62  
Old 10.05.2021, 12:44
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Re: Dogecoin

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Its very difficult to draw a correlation to the replacement of banking systems and settlements processes as a source of future cash flows (and other use cases like digital contracts) but there is a body of growing evidence it could work and happen. not there yet
It's evidently too unstable to be ever used a currency. At least for the forseeable future. And it isn't going to accumulate value in the long term, as there are no future cash flows, so it isn't an investment. So its a pyramid scheme.

Can you buy a 20 year put on Bitcoin? I'd be tempted.
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  #63  
Old 10.05.2021, 13:03
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Re: Dogecoin

Gov coins are coming apparently.....but yes its not a currency, just a perceived store of value.

I dont see the movement as an opportunity to build a separate currency, but as infrastructure to replace the tired and many decade old banking infrastructure that needs to be disrupted - Defi has a role in this.
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  #64  
Old 10.05.2021, 13:31
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Re: Dogecoin

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It's evidently too unstable to be ever used a currency. At least for the forseeable future. And it isn't going to accumulate value in the long term, as there are no future cash flows, so it isn't an investment. So its a pyramid scheme.
Explain that because there are no future cash flows and it isnít an investment then itís a pyramid scheme, strange conclusion considering itís actually a currency. You might not be able to buy much with it but the fact that you can definitely doesnít make it a pyramid scheme.
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Old 10.05.2021, 13:41
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Re: Dogecoin

Has anyone retired on bitcoin or any other crypto gains? These things have been out there for years. If there are some gains but not I quit my job today gains, at best it's just like any other investment like rental real estate, value investing and the occasional YOLO short.

I don't get the obsession with payment systems. For anything worth paying, there's no rush to pay. All the time in the world can be spent checking if the money is where it's supposed to be, leave the docs with a secure third party (notar)....all the immediacy only ads value to paying for pizza or a couple beers. But that's not a problem that needs to be solved.
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Old 10.05.2021, 13:44
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Re: Dogecoin

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Explain that because there are no future cash flows and it isnít an investment then itís a pyramid scheme, strange conclusion considering itís actually a currency. You might not be able to buy much with it but the fact that you can definitely doesnít make it a pyramid scheme.
Currency is not an investment either & currently has negative cash flows in many currencies including CHF & EURO, in the same way gold has holding costs.
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Old 10.05.2021, 14:13
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Re: Dogecoin

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It's evidently too unstable to be ever used a currency. At least for the forseeable future. And it isn't going to accumulate value in the long term, as there are no future cash flows, so it isn't an investment. So its a pyramid scheme.

Can you buy a 20 year put on Bitcoin? I'd be tempted.
In terms of future cash flows, this isn't much different from a stock that doesn't pay a dividend (e.g. Facebook) and relies on price appreciation to generate investment income. I think crypto is more similar to a commodity than a stock, anyway.

In terms of actual future cash flows, then proof of stake (which Ethereum is migrating to) provides this (i.e. income that miners currently earn will be distributed to stakers).

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Has anyone retired on bitcoin or any other crypto gains? These things have been out there for years. If there are some gains but not I quit my job today gains, at best it's just like any other investment like rental real estate, value investing and the occasional YOLO short.
I think JoeUK said he retired on crypto earnings. I suppose I could retire (on that basis), but don't really want to. Retirement is just the final approach to the grave (to give it an aviation metaphor).
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  #68  
Old 10.05.2021, 14:20
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Re: Dogecoin

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In terms of future cash flows, this isn't much different from a stock that doesn't pay a dividend (e.g. Facebook) and relies on price appreciation to generate investment income. I think crypto is more similar to a commodity than a stock, anyway.

In terms of actual future cash flows, then proof of stake (which Ethereum is migrating to) provides this (i.e. income that miners currently earn will be distributed to stakers).

I think JoeUK said he retired on crypto earnings. I suppose I could retire (on that basis), but don't really want to. Retirement is just the final approach to the grave (to give it an aviation metaphor).

Not really, at least in my view. Facebook is (very) profitable, thus *could* pay a dividend, but is reinvesting for growth instead.
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  #69  
Old 10.05.2021, 14:26
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Re: Dogecoin

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In terms of future cash flows, this isn't much different from a stock that doesn't pay a dividend (e.g. Facebook) and relies on price appreciation to generate investment income. I think crypto is more similar to a commodity than a stock, anyway.

In terms of actual future cash flows, then proof of stake (which Ethereum is migrating to) provides this (i.e. income that miners currently earn will be distributed to stakers).



I think JoeUK said he retired on crypto earnings. I suppose I could retire (on that basis), but don't really want to. Retirement is just the final approach to the grave (to give it an aviation metaphor).
Personally, I would opt for growth stocks investment as much safer avenue with intrinsic value. However, the tech stocks market has been showing a middle finger since January, whereas crypto’s shooting to the moon in the same period.
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Old 10.05.2021, 14:34
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Re: Dogecoin

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Binance has Dogecoin to buy. I wouldn't recommend it has a long term investment though. I feel the rug is going to pulled soon and there will be a lot of unhappy people at that point.
Somehow, new fintech companies are buggier than old people banks. Anyone wanting to sell is stuck today. @Porsch1909, what you had for breakfast today? Insider info from Binance?



https://twitter.com/binance/status/1391712340341624836
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Old 10.05.2021, 14:42
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Re: Dogecoin

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In terms of future cash flows, this isn't much different from a stock that doesn't pay a dividend (e.g. Facebook) and relies on price appreciation to generate investment income. I think crypto is more similar to a commodity than a stock, anyway.
As a shareholder you own a percentage of the cashflows, if the company can invest them at a high compound rate of return, it's far better than receiving a dividend that is taxable if paid out.
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Old 10.05.2021, 15:02
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Re: Dogecoin

And I missed this one for being busy with the wine from Neuch‚tel during the weekend.......Robinhood of course fails when most needed by customers


I can't stop thinking about one of the most beautiful neologisms in Spanish: corralito https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corralito
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  #73  
Old 10.05.2021, 15:46
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Re: Dogecoin

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Personally, I would opt for growth stocks investment as much safer avenue with intrinsic value. However, the tech stocks market has been showing a middle finger since January, whereas cryptoís shooting to the moon in the same period.
I think there's a degree of causation behind the inverse correlation. People who invest in bitcoin and racier growth stocks are often one and the same (not in my case!), and they appear to like coins better at the minute. When the crash happens there may be some back rotation.
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  #74  
Old 10.05.2021, 15:57
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Re: Dogecoin

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I think there's a degree of causation behind the inverse correlation. People who invest in bitcoin and racier growth stocks are often one and the same (not in my case!), and they appear to like coins better at the minute. When the crash happens there may be some back rotation.
As we speak Nasdaq is 150 points down today, whereas altcoins seem to be relatively stable towards the upper trend. At the times when all three markets SP500, Dow and Nasdaq are in green region, the coins shoot up like crazy. Whereas when all three in red, then they seem to be going thru correction phase. Itís just my small observation and correlation.
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Old 10.05.2021, 17:04
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Re: Dogecoin

As usual with any crypto thread on EF, we just end up with a milksop rehash of the epic discussion we had in 2013 in the Bitcoin paper presented to Swiss parliament thread.

A lot of the usual suspects posting here were on it (and some no longer seen), including a young me who is just too much of a smartass for his own good (I so wish I could employ 2013 me; I'd certainly pay him more now than I paid me then...). Particularly quaint are the discussions of the minutia of Bitcoin pricing in the hundreds of dollars.

Here are some highlights:

Why is Bitcoin worth anything?

Why Bitcoin has attributes of money but would be a bad national currency and why it isn't a Ponzi scheme (nor a pyramid scheme)

Cashflows - it's a commodity!

Why is it a commodity?

Proof of work is unsustainable

First ever mention of Dogecoin on EF

What's interesting about Dogecoin?
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  #76  
Old 10.05.2021, 17:56
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Re: Dogecoin

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Somehow, new fintech companies are buggier than old people banks. Anyone wanting to sell is stuck today. @Porsch1909, what you had for breakfast today? Insider info from Binance?



https://twitter.com/binance/status/1391712340341624836
As long as they aren't sharing the transactions with HMRC please
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  #77  
Old 10.05.2021, 18:05
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Re: Dogecoin

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Has anyone retired on bitcoin or any other crypto gains? These things have been out there for years. If there are some gains but not I quit my job today gains, at best it's just like any other investment like rental real estate, value investing and the occasional YOLO short.

I don't get the obsession with payment systems. For anything worth paying, there's no rush to pay. All the time in the world can be spent checking if the money is where it's supposed to be, leave the docs with a secure third party (notar)....all the immediacy only ads value to paying for pizza or a couple beers. But that's not a problem that needs to be solved.
Me ... Not quite quit today, it took three years.
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Old 10.05.2021, 18:13
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Re: Dogecoin

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Me ... Not quite quit today, it took three years.
So, three years ago?
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  #79  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:25
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As a shareholder you own a percentage of the cashflows, if the company can invest them at a high compound rate of return, it's far better than receiving a dividend that is taxable if paid out.
Or lend crypto you already own at 200%+ per year compound.

Diversify, you won't regret it.
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  #80  
Old 10.05.2021, 19:39
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Re: Dogecoin

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Or lend crypto you already own at 200%+ per year compound.

Diversify, you won't regret it.
I really don't believe in diversification, I would only invest in something if I was happy to invest my 90% of net worth in it. If I don't think it's that good then I generally don't bother.
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