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  #21  
Old 01.10.2021, 09:36
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Re: RAV and new start-up

Follow-up question on the topic:

what are the criteria for RAV to start treating a startup as a normal company?

I.e. if we are 4 people, finding investor and creating a spin-off company, paying ourselves normal salaries (EF poverty borderline kind of salary ) from the start and creating some revenue, are we eligible for RAV if this company collapses after 1-2 years?

I have the impression that what was discussed in this thread applies to self-employment in the sense of individual entrepreneur.

Does anyone know about this or have a link to clarify?
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  #22  
Old 01.10.2021, 11:09
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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Follow-up question on the topic:

what are the criteria for RAV to start treating a startup as a normal company?

I.e. if we are 4 people, finding investor and creating a spin-off company, paying ourselves normal salaries (EF poverty borderline kind of salary ) from the start and creating some revenue, are we eligible for RAV if this company collapses after 1-2 years?

I have the impression that what was discussed in this thread applies to self-employment in the sense of individual entrepreneur.

Does anyone know about this or have a link to clarify?

Are you a majority shareholder ?
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  #23  
Old 03.10.2021, 15:09
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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Are you a majority shareholder ?
We are 4 co-founders and an investor, so 100% is split into 10-20% shares, with the investor holding another 35%. Does it make a difference, how much % you hold?
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  #24  
Old 03.10.2021, 17:18
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Re: RAV and new start-up

Generally, an employee, who is in an employer-similar position, must definitively leave the company to be eligible for unemployment compensation. This means selling any shares and cutting any other ties to the company.

This is a relevant example mentioned under para. B14 in the below link:
"A managing director of a GmbH, who is dismissed from the employment relationship and loses his individual signing authority but remains a shareholder with the previous partner with the previous capital contribution of CHF 12,000, remains in a position similar to that of an employer. It is still possible to have a decisive influence on the course of business."

This is another relevant example under para. B17:

"A member of the Board of Directors who owns only 2% of the shares and has collective signature by two persons is excluded from ALE without further examination.
This exclusion applies irrespective of his area of responsibility and the internal division of duties, as well as irrespective of the fact that, for example, the Chairman of the Board of Directors owns 95 % of the shares and is authorized to sign alone. "

For further information, please this link starting at B12 Arbeitgeberähnliche Stellung (Employer-similar position) (German):

https://www.arbeit.swiss/dam/secoalv...Praxis_ALE.pdf
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  #25  
Old 03.10.2021, 17:38
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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Generally, an employee, who is in an employer-similar position, must definitively leave the company to be eligible for unemployment compensation. This means selling any shares and cutting any other ties to the company.
Hm, so if it gets bankrupt and liquidated, this should be ok, since you now own shares of non-existing business? Otherwise this makes no sense to me.
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  #26  
Old 04.10.2021, 15:35
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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We are 4 co-founders and an investor, so 100% is split into 10-20% shares, with the investor holding another 35%. Does it make a difference, how much % you hold?
If you're successful it will, income-tax-wise.
Dividends and similar payments are taxed at a reduced rate by Switzerland and most Cantons, 70% by the Federation and 50% by the typical Canton.

So, if you you own +10% of the company and receive CHF 10k in dividends the rebate means:
- on the federal level only 7k are taxed as income
- on the cantonal and municipal level, in most cantons, only 5k are taxed as income

What that means in absolute amounts will depend on your marginal tax rate. However, due to progressive tax rates, the effect on the tax amount due is significantly higher than the rebate alone would seem to imply in pretty much all cases.
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