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Old 20.05.2021, 16:22
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RAV and new start-up

So I'm getting a bit fed up of working for The Man.

I was thinking of trying something new and starting a new business. Unfortunately, as this is somewhat risky venture, it will take time for revenue to ramp up (let's say 1 year). I could put, say, $20k into the starting capital of my company and pay myself, say, $600 a month salary for the first year in the worst case of there being near zero revenue.

My question: would RAV supplement part of the salary drop from my current salary to the new $600 per month salary?
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Old 20.05.2021, 22:45
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Re: RAV and new start-up

No, I don't believe they would just subsidise a startup venture for someone who's already working a normal job but who wants a change.

If you've left your job and are already registered with the RAV, now that's quite different. They look for ways to basically get you off their books and stop paying you. To this end they may well finance some training, and they do offer a scheme where they will continue to pay your monthly RAV payment for 3 months (i.e. 70% of previous salary, or 80% if you have dependents) while you get the business off the ground. In this period you don't have to apply for 12 jobs a month as usual. However (BIG however), you can't simply go back to the RAV if the venture fails. That's it. If you agree to their 3-month offer, that's the end of your RAV.

I certainly wouldn't advocate trying to play the system of course but a less scrupulous person than you or me might arrange to get laid off, thereby getting RAV payments almost straight away. Then spend part of the 2-year (ish) RAV period planning the venture, and being very careful to declare any income received in the interim. If and when it looks like becoming a proper business rather than just a casual dalliance for pin money, the RAV will want to know all about it, and will not allow you to continue with the RAV, unless you take up the 3-month arrangement mentioned above.

There are schemes to help new businesses get off the ground e.g. www.startup.ch and www.startups.ch but you'll have to DYOR regarding financial assistance. These schemes are separate from the RAV.
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Old 20.05.2021, 22:50
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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So I'm getting a bit fed up of working for The Man.

I was thinking of trying something new and starting a new business. Unfortunately, as this is somewhat risky venture, it will take time for revenue to ramp up (let's say 1 year). I could put, say, $20k into the starting capital of my company and pay myself, say, $600 a month salary for the first year in the worst case of there being near zero revenue.

My question: would RAV supplement part of the salary drop from my current salary to the new $600 per month salary?
You would leave a very well paid job and then only pay yourself 7200chf per year and expect RAV to subsiside the rest? I'd be very surprised if they even considered that... though I'm looking forward to seeing the answers!

Last edited by Chuff; 20.05.2021 at 23:21.
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Old 20.05.2021, 23:13
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Re: RAV and new start-up

See if you can get a Covid credit, that would give you money with 0% interest - but I don't know how it works for a company that is yet to be founded.
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Old 20.05.2021, 23:54
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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So I'm getting a bit fed up of working for The Man.

I was thinking of trying something new and starting a new business. Unfortunately, as this is somewhat risky venture, it will take time for revenue to ramp up (let's say 1 year). I could put, say, $20k into the starting capital of my company and pay myself, say, $600 a month salary for the first year in the worst case of there being near zero revenue.

My question: would RAV supplement part of the salary drop from my current salary to the new $600 per month salary?
Only as a last resort... meaning something like you are in your late 50s and you have been been searching for a long time already...
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Old 21.05.2021, 09:14
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Re: RAV and new start-up

Reading EF makes me laugh. Then I realize that many a thread is serious and I begin to wonder how the hell have humans survived as a species?
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Old 21.05.2021, 09:21
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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Reading EF makes me laugh. Then I realize that many a thread is serious and I begin to wonder how the hell have humans survived as a species?
and the question coming from someone not really fresh off the boat too
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Old 21.05.2021, 09:39
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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Reading EF makes me laugh. Then I realize that many a thread is serious and I begin to wonder how the hell have humans survived as a species?
However working for The Man is as humanely as it can get. Don’t suspect any extraterrestrial interference out there.
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  #9  
Old 21.05.2021, 09:41
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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If you've left your job and are already registered with the RAV, now that's quite different. They look for ways to basically get you off their books and stop paying you. To this end they may well finance some training, and they do offer a scheme where they will continue to pay your monthly RAV payment for 3 months (i.e. 70% of previous salary, or 80% if you have dependents) while you get the business off the ground. In this period you don't have to apply for 12 jobs a month as usual. However (BIG however), you can't simply go back to the RAV if the venture fails. That's it. If you agree to their 3-month offer, that's the end of your RAV.
I've never heard of this 3 month 'deal' before.

I just saw it as:

1. Quit job
2. Have 3 months no unemployment support since quit and not fired
3. Get a new job with the new company
4. Since new salary < old salary, RAV pays a supplement

Why would RAV not pay the supplement:

a. Maybe they say the salary is too low and I can get a better paying job
b. Maybe there is a rule which doesn't allow if you own the company

I never heard of rule 'b' but maybe they treat it as self-employment. For 'a' this would be a valid concern, maybe it can be covered by having the salary as a base salary with bonus performance up to 240k depending on revenue performance. hit the targets, then obviously no RAV is needed.
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Old 21.05.2021, 09:50
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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I've never heard of this 3 month 'deal' before.

I just saw it as:

1. Quit job
2. Have 3 months no unemployment support since quit and not fired
3. Get a new job with the new company
4. Since new salary < old salary, RAV pays a supplement

Why would RAV not pay the supplement:

a. Maybe they say the salary is too low and I can get a better paying job
b. Maybe there is a rule which doesn't allow if you own the company

I never heard of rule 'b' but maybe they treat it as self-employment. For 'a' this would be a valid concern, maybe it can be covered by having the salary as a base salary with bonus performance up to 240k depending on revenue performance. hit the targets, then obviously no RAV is needed.
Paying yourself 600chf per month, or 7200chf per year, is ridiculously low and if I was RAV I would assume you are trying to exploit the system.

You are a qualified professional in a high-earning salary band who is voluntarily giving it up in order to earn a peanuts salary that you then want to be almost completely supplemented by insurance for a full year or more? Seems a bit unreasonable.
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Old 21.05.2021, 09:50
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Re: RAV and new start-up

In OP particular case, no, they won't. As others have pointed out, you are putting yourself into this position.

If you want to create a start up, the proper way to do it would be: work on business plan, set money aside, quit/reduce % at your actual job, embark in the new adventure.



There are many programs/measures you can enrol in while unemployed, promoting self employment is one of them:



List of measures
Courses
Trainee work placement
Training grants
Working at a training firm
Induction grants
Motivation semester
Participation in a temporary employment programme
Vocational work placement

Promoting self-employment
Unemployment insurance assists people in taking up self-employed work

by continuing to pay you your usual daily allowance and exempting you from having to search for a job for up to 90 days during the planning phase and/or
taking on some of the risk of loss for your planned business.
Requirements

You became unemployed through no fault of your own.
You have registered at the regional employment centre RAV.
You are entitled to unemployment benefit.
You are at least 20 years of age.
The responsible office decides whether it will assist you in taking up self-employed work. You must provide the RAV with a rough concept, which clearly shows whether the planned self-employed work is financially viable over the long term.

Case study
Mr Müller is 44 years old and has been unemployed for six months. Before becoming unemployed, he worked as a gardener for the canton. As he spends more and more time unemployed, he comes up with the idea of becoming self-employed.
Following a number of conversations with his RAV personnel consultant, he decides to open his own gardening business. He then submits a rough concept and an application for special daily allowances to his personnel consultant. Both of these are approved. Mr Müller is now able to spend around four months planning his project (with up to 90 daily allowances) and then open his own business.

https://www.arbeit.swiss/secoalv/en/...hmenliste.html
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Old 21.05.2021, 09:52
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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I've never heard of this 3 month 'deal' before.

I just saw it as:

1. Quit job
2. Have 3 months no unemployment support since quit and not fired
3. Get a new job with the new company
4. Since new salary < old salary, RAV pays a supplement

Why would RAV not pay the supplement:

a. Maybe they say the salary is too low and I can get a better paying job
b. Maybe there is a rule which doesn't allow if you own the company

I never heard of rule 'b' but maybe they treat it as self-employment. For 'a' this would be a valid concern, maybe it can be covered by having the salary as a base salary with bonus performance up to 240k depending on revenue performance. hit the targets, then obviously no RAV is needed.
They would say the job was unsuitable as the salary was too low, 700 a month for a full time job when Aldi pay 4400, the computer says no & from someone who earned multiples of the Aldi salary in the past.
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Old 21.05.2021, 10:06
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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So I'm getting a bit fed up of working for The Man.

I was thinking of trying something new and starting a new business. Unfortunately, as this is somewhat risky venture, it will take time for revenue to ramp up (let's say 1 year). I could put, say, $20k into the starting capital of my company and pay myself, say, $600 a month salary for the first year in the worst case of there being near zero revenue.

My question: would RAV supplement part of the salary drop from my current salary to the new $600 per month salary?
Not appreciating the sudden killing of CWR?

You are early 40s? I'd personally try and soldier on for another decade with the knowledge that freedom approaches.
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Old 21.05.2021, 10:11
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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You are early 40s?
When I first met Phil 10 years ago he was about 15 years younger than I expected
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Old 21.05.2021, 10:41
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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Not appreciating the sudden killing of CWR?
CWR is a phrase that tells much about things
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Old 21.05.2021, 10:46
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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Not appreciating the sudden killing of CWR?

You are early 40s? I'd personally try and soldier on for another decade with the knowledge that freedom approaches.
Oh? I didn't know CWR had been killed...
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Old 21.05.2021, 10:47
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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I've never heard of this 3 month 'deal' before.

I just saw it as:

1. Quit job
2. Have 3 months no unemployment support since quit and not fired
3. Get a new job with the new company
4. Since new salary < old salary, RAV pays a supplement

Why would RAV not pay the supplement:

a. Maybe they say the salary is too low and I can get a better paying job
b. Maybe there is a rule which doesn't allow if you own the company

I never heard of rule 'b' but maybe they treat it as self-employment. For 'a' this would be a valid concern, maybe it can be covered by having the salary as a base salary with bonus performance up to 240k depending on revenue performance. hit the targets, then obviously no RAV is needed.
You want to be an entrepreneur, which means taking a risk. If you see payment of your own salary as a key risk in this stage, I would seriously reconsider the business plan and the funding of the company.

If you want to go for a plan B, then consider:
1. if your previous employer would be willing to rehire you in case things go wrong
2. if your position in the job market is strong
3. maybe starting your business on a part-time basis, where you would still get some money and still be insured
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Old 21.05.2021, 10:58
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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You want to be an entrepreneur, which means taking a risk. If you see payment of your own salary as a key risk in this stage, I would seriously reconsider the business plan and the funding of the company.

If you want to go for a plan B, then consider:
1. if your previous employer would be willing to rehire you in case things go wrong
2. if your position in the job market is strong
3. maybe starting your business on a part-time basis, where you would still get some money and still be insured
I'm at the fact-finding stage. I consider this a one-way move and trying to understand if RAV provides support in the same way as I would look to see if there are any other support/incentives available. I didn't really expect it to be available, but asked as it would be a significant support.

1&2: no, if I leave, I'll probably be too disenchanted with the industry to return
3: i have done this in the past and successfully worked weekends and evenings. now being older and with 2 kids, i don't have the time any more.
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Last edited by Phil_MCR; 21.05.2021 at 11:15.
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Old 21.05.2021, 11:02
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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I'm at the fact-finding stage. I consider this a one-way move and trying to understand if RAV provides support in the same way as I would look to see if there are any other support/incentives available. I didn't really expect it to be available, but asked as it would be a significant support.
What percentage are you offering for seed funding
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Old 21.05.2021, 11:02
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Re: RAV and new start-up

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When I first met Phil 10 years ago he was about 15 years younger than I expected
I wish I'd started seriously investing when I first met you and then I would just quit and retire today
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