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  #41  
Old 30.05.2021, 15:03
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Re: Taking a loan to fund voluntary contributions to 2nd pillar?

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nobody mentionned it but i'm pressure there is a limit to how much you can contribute in your 2nd pillar, defined by your insured salary and your contributions history.
I think there's no limit for both, 2nd and 3rd (so far I haven't seen that information), but for 3rd there's limit how much is tax deductible per year. Maybe something similar exists for 2nd? That info I haven't find yet.
But also, maybe not. Since in 2nd pillar that money is effectively blocked and close to rotting and if you die, it belongs to the fund and those who lived longer... Unless you get it out to buy a property and then stop contributing to it...

It would be nice if there's some site where all information about 2nd and 3rd pillar is, everything I've gathered is from tons of sites and small bits and pieces...
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  #42  
Old 30.05.2021, 15:26
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Re: Taking a loan to fund voluntary contributions to 2nd pillar?

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Wow, can‘t believe this post. Believe me, when you are going into retirement (voluntarily or not), the World is your Oyster if you don‘t have debt, and have a healthy amount (+), not revolving debt (-) on your banking account after 2 pillar pay-out
Proper financial planning should always be used, even if you are pretty wealthy.
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  #43  
Old 30.05.2021, 16:07
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Re: Taking a loan to fund voluntary contributions to 2nd pillar?

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Since in 2nd pillar that money is effectively blocked and close to rotting and if you die, it belongs to the fund and those who lived longer... Unless you get it out to buy a property and then stop contributing to it...

It would be nice if there's some site where all information about 2nd and 3rd pillar is, everything I've gathered is from tons of sites and small bits and pieces...
First statement is not true if you take out your retirement assets as a lump sum on retirement. Many (most?) 2. Säule offer this from age 58 onwards of course with the applicable reductions due to non-contributions from your retirement. And there is a limit on how much you can contribute to your 2 Säule per year. You will usually be informed by your employer on this limit (at UBS on a yearly basis).

Second statement:
https://www.ch.ch/en/manage-retirement-provision/

The rest needs personal effort to understand it all and make decisions, as does everything.
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  #44  
Old 30.05.2021, 19:21
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Re: Taking a loan to fund voluntary contributions to 2nd pillar?

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I think there's no limit for both, 2nd and 3rd (so far I haven't seen that information), but for 3rd there's limit how much is tax deductible per year. Maybe something similar exists for 2nd? That info I haven't find yet.
But also, maybe not. Since in 2nd pillar that money is effectively blocked and close to rotting and if you die, it belongs to the fund and those who lived longer... Unless you get it out to buy a property and then stop contributing to it...

It would be nice if there's some site where all information about 2nd and 3rd pillar is, everything I've gathered is from tons of sites and small bits and pieces...
Just to complete the confirmation that most of this is nonsense - if you die then your spouse or dependents are entitled to the relevant pension in some form.

If you don't have a spouse or dependents, then why would you care?
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  #45  
Old 31.05.2021, 00:06
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Re: Taking a loan to fund voluntary contributions to 2nd pillar?

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But you won't be able to take your pillar 2 out until much later - unless you leave the country - so Id avoid.
Not more than five years before the ordinary pension age, that's age 60 for men, 59 for women currently. With ongoing employment it depends on the Pensionskasse (age 58 is common).

Otherwise, OP will probably need to emigrate to get the money paid out. AFAIK the other causes are getting self-employed, and buying real estate that's also your home.
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Still don't understand the so what of being considered a prof investor?
Generally, capital gains on financial securities are income tax free, you're already making good use of that priviledge.

However if you're considered a professional investor the gains will be considered income and taxed accordingly, and to add insult to injury you'll have to pay AHV/EO on top of that (an additional 10.6%). In your income tax bracket the total burden for such a re-classification is probably closer to 40% than 30% of the gross capital gains, and AFAIK you can't deduct your losses unless you meet their bookkeeping requirements.

As to your original question, it's definitely worth buying into pillar 2 if you're after predictability and ignore opportunity costs. The optimal annual amounts will depend on your taxable income and the total buy-in available (available now, or in 5 years, or 10), ask your Pensionskasse or HR for the amounts.

Yes it will trigger attention from the tax authorities, as a buy-in lowers your taxable income. But the Pensionskasse will provide documentation that will have the tax office accept the deduction.
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  #46  
Old 31.05.2021, 01:09
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Re: Taking a loan to fund voluntary contributions to 2nd pillar?

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Just to complete the confirmation that most of this is nonsense - if you die then your spouse or dependents are entitled to the relevant pension in some form.

If you don't have a spouse or dependents, then why would you care?
That is true only if you die after you already retired, but if you die before retirement, it basically vanishes. I definitely wasn't writing clearly in my previous post, sorry for that.
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  #47  
Old 31.05.2021, 02:07
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Re: Taking a loan to fund voluntary contributions to 2nd pillar?

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Wow, can‘t believe this post. Believe me, when you are going into retirement (voluntarily or not), the World is your Oyster if you don‘t have debt, and have a healthy amount (+), not revolving debt (-) on your banking account after 2 pillar pay-out
Without leverage (from debt), you're losing out on a LOT of returns in this low interest rate environment.
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  #48  
Old 31.05.2021, 09:08
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Re: Taking a loan to fund voluntary contributions to 2nd pillar?

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That is true only if you die after you already retired, but if you die before retirement, it basically vanishes. I definitely wasn't writing clearly in my previous post, sorry for that.
Not in any of the pension funds I've had. All of them pay out a survivors pension also if you die from illness before retirement.

The amounts vary quite a lot depending on the circumstances, but are not zero - the hierarchy for my current setup is:

- accident = 90%
- death when retired = 60%
- death before retirement = 45%
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  #49  
Old 31.05.2021, 12:32
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Re: Taking a loan to fund voluntary contributions to 2nd pillar?

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Not in any of the pension funds I've had. All of them pay out a survivors pension also if you die from illness before retirement.

The amounts vary quite a lot depending on the circumstances, but are not zero - the hierarchy for my current setup is:

- accident = 90%
- death when retired = 60%
- death before retirement = 45%

This is true for my pension account, and that of my spouse (I am not sure of the percentages, but if either of us dies before retirement, the other will be the beneficiary of 2nd pillar savings).
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  #50  
Old 01.06.2021, 00:42
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Re: Taking a loan to fund voluntary contributions to 2nd pillar?

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Not in any of the pension funds I've had. All of them pay out a survivors pension also if you die from illness before retirement.

The amounts vary quite a lot depending on the circumstances, but are not zero - the hierarchy for my current setup is:

- accident = 90%
- death when retired = 60%
- death before retirement = 45%
Great to hear that. Up until now the only thing I've heard was what I've shared.
Thanks for clarification.
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