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Old 29.06.2021, 19:47
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Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

So it seems that since the UK left the EU, we are not eligible to receive pillar 1 pension payments if we move out of Switzerland.

The UK is not included on this list of countries who have a negotiated social security agreement with Switzerland, but I find this a bit surprising as the U.S. does have an agreement. Is it possible this list is not updated since the end of the withdrawal agreement?? https://www.ch.ch/en/retirement-abroad/

Obviously I will try to get the information from official channels, but so far not having much luck with that. Anyone know anythin g about this? (I should add that I would be living in an EU country, not the UK, and I will not receive any kind of pension from the UK.)

Apologies if this has already been discussed - I did not find anything when I searched.

Carolyn
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Old 29.06.2021, 19:50
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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So it seems that since the UK left the EU, we are not eligible to receive pillar 1 pension payments if we move out of Switzerland.

The UK is not included on this list of countries who have a negotiated social security agreement with Switzerland, but I find this a bit surprising as the U.S. does have an agreement. Is it possible this list is not updated since the end of the withdrawal agreement?? https://www.ch.ch/en/retirement-abroad/

Obviously I will try to get the information from official channels, but so far not having much luck with that. Anyone know anythin g about this? (I should add that I would be living in an EU country, not the UK, and I will not receive any kind of pension from the UK.)

Apologies if this has already been discussed - I did not find anything when I searched.

Carolyn
Looks like you have to pay Swiss health insurance in your new country of residence unless you receive a local pension.
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Old 29.06.2021, 20:14
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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Looks like you have to pay Swiss health insurance in your new country of residence unless you receive a local pension.
Not necessarily. According to this, you have the "Option of obtaining insurance in country of residence"

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...m-ausland.html
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Old 29.06.2021, 20:26
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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Not necessarily. According to this, you have the "Option of obtaining insurance in country of residence"

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...m-ausland.html
Persons drawing pensions from several countries (but not from their country of residence) must take out health insurance in the country in which they paid contributions for the longest period.

So it depends how many pensions you get & if you paid for more years than the Swiss one.
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Old 29.06.2021, 20:51
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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Persons drawing pensions from several countries (but not from their country of residence) must take out health insurance in the country in which they paid contributions for the longest period.

So it depends how many pensions you get & if you paid for more years than the Swiss one.
That's not what I understand from the page I linked. But it's a bit complicated - I've only been in Switzerland for 9 years. Prior to that I worked for an American university in Germany for many years so paid into a U.S. fund from where I will be getting most of my pension. I doubt I'll be getting U.S. insurance (I was not officially resident in Germany, as I was under the Status of Forces, so do not get a German pension.)
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Old 29.06.2021, 21:31
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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That's not what I understand from the page I linked. But it's a bit complicated - I've only been in Switzerland for 9 years. Prior to that I worked for an American university in Germany for many years so paid into a U.S. fund from where I will be getting most of my pension. I doubt I'll be getting U.S. insurance (I was not officially resident in Germany, as I was under the Status of Forces, so do not get a German pension.)
Sounds like you will be paying Swiss insurance living in the EU & not haveing any other EU pension. The premium is based on the country you live in & will have a 300 excess, you don't have any choice in the matter.

If you choose to delay taking your Swiss pilar 1 you can buy local insurance till you take the Swiss Pillar 1.
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Old 29.06.2021, 21:55
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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Persons drawing pensions from several countries (but not from their country of residence) must take out health insurance in the country in which they paid contributions for the longest period.

So it depends how many pensions you get & if you paid for more years than the Swiss one.
So hypothetically if I paid uk class 2 nics until I retire I wouldn't need a Swiss insurance if I retired to Portugal or Malta or wherever?
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Old 29.06.2021, 22:01
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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So hypothetically if I paid uk class 2 nics until I retire I wouldn't need a Swiss insurance if I retired to Portugal or Malta or wherever?
Depends if you take your Swiss pension at 63/64/65/66. You will need to be at least 67 before you can get your UK OAP. (not sure how old you are, so it could be later.)
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Old 29.06.2021, 22:16
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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Depends if you take your Swiss pension at 63/64/65/66. You will need to be at least 67 before you can get your UK OAP. (not sure how old you are, so it could be later.)
The move to 68 is planned for 2046. I'll be 57 then.

So if I took my Swiss pension at 66 I'd need to pay 2 years of Swiss insurance?
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Old 29.06.2021, 22:55
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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The move to 68 is planned for 2046. I'll be 57 then.

So if I took my Swiss pension at 66 I'd need to pay 2 years of Swiss insurance?
Thats how it looks, assuming you retire outside of CH & they accept that the UK pension takes precedence. If the CH one pays more I wonder what the outcome will be.
If you delayed taking the Swiss one & get the insurance paid by the UK first I suspect the question will not come up!
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Old 29.06.2021, 23:06
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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Thats how it looks, assuming you retire outside of CH & they accept that the UK pension takes precedence. If the CH one pays more I wonder what the outcome will be.
If you delayed taking the Swiss one & get the insurance paid by the UK first I suspect the question will not come up!
How does it work with UK insurance? Is it completely free?

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 29.06.2021 at 23:30.
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Old 29.06.2021, 23:17
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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Hi does it work with UK insurance? Is it completely free?
UK pays for your medical costs in full less 300 chf excess + 10% so equal to the lowest franchise, I don't think there is an insurance as such.
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Old 30.06.2021, 07:44
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

Thanks for the responses and information. Unfortunately I'm still not clear whether we (Brits) are actually eligible to receive Pillar 1 outside of Switzerland since Brexit, whether with or without health insurance.
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Old 30.06.2021, 08:25
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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Thanks for the responses and information. Unfortunately I'm still not clear whether we (Brits) are actually eligible to receive Pillar 1 outside of Switzerland since Brexit, whether with or without health insurance.
Of course you are, where did you get that idea from.
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Old 30.06.2021, 09:30
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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Of course you are, where did you get that idea from.

From here - the paragraph about citizens from non-EU countries: https://www.ch.ch/en/retirement-abroad/

Foreign nationals from other countries

If you are a citizen from a country with which Switzerland has concluded a social security agreement (Australia, San Marino, Canada, Israel, Japan, Turkey, Chile, Macedonia, USA, Philippines, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro and Uruguay), you can receive your AHV pension abroad.

If this is not the case, no pension will be paid once you leave Switzerland and settle abroad.
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Old 30.06.2021, 09:52
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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From here - the paragraph about citizens from non-EU countries: https://www.ch.ch/en/retirement-abroad/

Foreign nationals from other countries

If you are a citizen from a country with which Switzerland has concluded a social security agreement (Australia, San Marino, Canada, Israel, Japan, Turkey, Chile, Macedonia, USA, Philippines, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro and Uruguay), you can receive your AHV pension abroad.

If this is not the case, no pension will be paid once you leave Switzerland and settle abroad.
For those countries without social security agreement with Switzerland, you take out your pension as a lump-sum when you leave.
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Old 30.06.2021, 09:55
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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From here - the paragraph about citizens from non-EU countries: https://www.ch.ch/en/retirement-abroad/

Foreign nationals from other countries

If you are a citizen from a country with which Switzerland has concluded a social security agreement (Australia, San Marino, Canada, Israel, Japan, Turkey, Chile, Macedonia, USA, Philippines, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro and Uruguay), you can receive your AHV pension abroad.

If this is not the case, no pension will be paid once you leave Switzerland and settle abroad.
https://www.bsv.admin.ch/bsv/en/home...cherungen.html
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Old 30.06.2021, 10:00
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

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From here - the paragraph about citizens from non-EU countries: https://www.ch.ch/en/retirement-abroad/

Foreign nationals from other countries

If you are a citizen from a country with which Switzerland has concluded a social security agreement (Australia, San Marino, Canada, Israel, Japan, Turkey, Chile, Macedonia, USA, Philippines, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro and Uruguay), you can receive your AHV pension abroad.

If this is not the case, no pension will be paid once you leave Switzerland and settle abroad.
Hmm having looked a few documents you may have a point... the agreements between the UK and Switzerland so far addresses the situation covering citizens from one state residing in the other state for pension purposes. It says nothing about a situation where a citizen of one state resides in the other and then moves to a third state before retiring...

If you were to retire in Switzerland and then move you'd be covered.
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Old 30.06.2021, 13:36
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

I agree itís not particularly clear. Some of the documentation says that first pillar pensions canít be paid out in countries with no social security agreement (the UK falls into this bracket at present) and should therefore be paid out on leaving the country.

One issue is that it seems if you have dual citizenship with an EU country and/or (ambiguity around this) your spouse has EU citizenship you canít receive it. Iím not sure what happens to the contributions in this case?

Eg. UK National residing in UK, with dual nationality (Ireland) and Irish spouse.
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Old 30.06.2021, 14:57
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Re: Pillar 1 payments from outside Switzerland

Very interesting. If you verify that on account of being a UK national you can no longer claim 1 Pillar it may not necessarily be "bad" news.

The site you linked says you would have the possibilty to withdraw both your own and your employer's contributions after deduction of tax. I learned on another forum about some people leaving to non EU countries in the past who were able to do this.

The potential benefit is that you can build your own pot for retirement versus leaving to the AVS system which is socialised and has a funding shortfall; whether that is favourable to you or not might depend on your personal situation but in any case better than getting nothing

There may be some tax optimisation e.g. timing of getting the payout so it could be worth getting some advice unless you are very finance savy (I am sure EF will offer opinions if you share more details)

This is not applicable to me on account of now having Swiss nationailty
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