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  #21  
Old 04.07.2021, 18:56
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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Haha, straight to the point!

Ooooh it's a hard choice. I've spent my whole adult life moving around, chasing opportunities, going through immigration again and again... I finally found my dream house in a wonderful community and imagined I would retire here (yes I'm only 38).
Looks like “immigration” (hassle) isn’t really your thing? I didn’t think much about retirement at 38 but if you’ve found a special house in a neighbourhood you like – I’d stay put.
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  #22  
Old 04.07.2021, 19:17
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

Get that job , move to CH , enjoy strolling around all those pretty lovely cities built on river bank, most beautiful lapis and cobalt blue lakes, you will end up bored anyway, and you will stay on this forum for another 15years, fighting and biting, creating revolutions, go boldly where no man has gone before , explore new life and new civilisations.

I know how there are many companies who have those addresses (for mail) and I dont know how it works exactly but there must be something (legal) for individuals as well ...
https://myswissmailaddress.com/fr/
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  #23  
Old 04.07.2021, 19:30
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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I'm trying very hard not to name them... but this is an organisation that has unique status, like an embassy, and can issue its own residency passes without going through the Swiss government.

Thanks for the tips on accommodation though!
Everything has to go through Berne, including the UN’s CDL and embassy staff/employees. 99% of the time it’s just a formality.
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  #24  
Old 04.07.2021, 19:32
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

There are plenty of organisations with unique status. I don't think yours issue its own residency permits. Most likely you'll get one from FDFA.

https://www.eda.admin.ch/missions/mi...immunites.html


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I'm trying very hard not to name them... but this is an organisation that has unique status, like an embassy, and can issue its own residency passes without going through the Swiss government.

Thanks for the tips on accommodation though!
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Old 04.07.2021, 19:47
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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There are plenty of organisations with unique status. I don't think yours issue its own residency permits. Most likely you'll get one from FDFA.
Let's just agree that my employer has the power to grant me permission to live and work in Switzerland regardless of 'the normal rules'
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  #26  
Old 04.07.2021, 19:57
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

For regular mortals, work permit is needed in order to be able to work (which is also a residency permit), and then the answer to yours 'how long have you live in CH', is usually '6 months + 1 day at least'.
However, that might be different depending on the permit type, there were people here asking how long they're allowed to be outside of CH in order to keep their permit and in some cases they need permissions for long stays abroad especially continuous ones etc.

No EU person (except Croatian) has any problem of getting a permit if they have a job, so that's nothing special, and also they don't need employer to do that (only Croatians need employer go through the procedure similar to that for non-eu countries)

So, unless you decide to precisely describe your situation, people only can guess and assume, and they'll probably be wrong and give you wrong advice for your specific situation. In short, call the embassies and immigration office ask them for precise answers, since no one here can give you one. And you shouldn't rely on our advice here for such exotic situations anyway.
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Old 04.07.2021, 20:00
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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Let's just agree that my employer has the power to grant me permission to live and work in Switzerland regardless of 'the normal rules'
Every employer has that power when hiring an EU national.
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  #28  
Old 04.07.2021, 20:02
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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For regular mortals, work permit is needed in order to be able to work (which is also a residency permit), and then the answer to yours 'how long have you live in CH', is usually '6 months + 1 day at least'.
However, that might be different depending on the permit type, there were people here asking how long they're allowed to be outside of CH in order to keep their permit and in some cases they need permissions for long stays abroad especially continuous ones etc.

No EU person (except Croatian) has any problem of getting a permit if they have a job, so that's nothing special, and also they don't need employer to do that (only Croatians need employer go through the procedure similar to that for non-eu countries)

So, unless you decide to precisely describe your situation, people only can guess and assume, and they'll probably be wrong and give you wrong advice for your specific situation. In short, call the embassies and immigration office ask them for precise answers, since no one here can give you one. And you shouldn't rely on our advice here for such exotic situations anyway.
Thanks!

I've been assuming that it's a taxation issue rather than a permit one - sure I can spend almost 6 months of the year in Finland, but if I was working whilst in Finland (even teleworking for my employer in Switzerland), then the Finnish tax authorities would want their cut and my employer would become liable for Finnish corporation tax.

(Yeah, I've done a bunch more research since starting the thread this morning!)
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  #29  
Old 04.07.2021, 20:08
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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Let's just agree that my employer has the power to grant me permission to live and work in Switzerland regardless of 'the normal rules'
Let's try not to get too far off track on this. Assuming you'll get a permit without hassle, can you give us an idea of which part of the country you plan to live in? There are different websites to recommend for apartment-hunting depending on which language area. There are also some areas our members say are excellent, and others that folks say to avoid even if they're cheap.

Switzerland has an excellent public transport network. There are many train connections to the main cities if you choose not to live in town. In town = smaller flats with higher prices.
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  #30  
Old 04.07.2021, 20:18
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

I’m guessing if it’s something like the OECD then you don’t pay tax even if you reside in Switzerland.
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  #31  
Old 04.07.2021, 20:24
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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Can you give us an idea of which part of the country you plan to live in? There are different websites to recommend for apartment-hunting depending on which language area. There are also some areas our members say are excellent, and others that folks say to avoid even if they're cheap.

Switzerland has an excellent public transport network. There are many train connections to the main cities if you choose not to live in town. In town = smaller flats with higher prices.
Thank you!

Well the job (surprise, surprise) is in Geneva which is only significant because I might have to go there occasionally.

I have friends in Basel, Horgen and Zurich, which is pretty unhelpful.

But really my favoured lifestyle is in the countryside, private as possible, with water nearby for my paddleboard.

So I suppose I want a cheap, idyllic cottage in an isolated location within commuting distance of Geneva
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  #32  
Old 04.07.2021, 20:38
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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what's the minimum requirement for being "a Swiss resident"?
The minimum requirement for being a Swiss resident is to mostly reside in Switzerland

Here are the known knowns to your predicament:
  1. You have a work opportunity that is ideal for remote working, safe for occasional meetings
  2. Your potential employer wants you to relocate
  3. You are single, childless and
  4. You are willing to travel but are less keen to relocate
  5. You love your home
  6. You found your dream house in a wonderful community
  7. You don't want to sell your home
  8. You hate offices and cities
  9. The countryside is more your thing
  10. You've spent your adult life moving around and chasing opportunities
  11. Switzerland may be the best place in the whole world for some, but you might think differently
  12. There are shy introverts who are socially-minded and believe in equality and fairness for all in Switzerland, but you'll need to go find them and convince them to socialize with you. That will require a bit of work and commitment. Switzerland can be antagonistic and exclusionary – it can also be friendly and welcoming and inclusive. Depends. The Englishforum in Switzerland isn't Switzerland

And here are the known unknowns:
  1. How much do you want this job? How many of your boxes for leading a happy and fulfilling life does the job tick?
  2. You are willing to travel, but you seem less willing to emigrate?
  3. How important is your social life to you? I'm guessing it's reasonably important, since you mention that you live in a wonderful community. If you relocate, you'd obviously miss that, and you'd have to work at creating a social life here. Are you willing to put in the effort, given that you hope to be here as little as possible?
  4. You don't want to sell your home. Is it possible for you to rent it out while you're away, either long-term* or as an airbnb, in order to save some money?
  5. If you can't afford a studio or shared room (you should be able to get something from about CHF 500 per month, a bit off the beaten track), is your employer offering you enough money?
  6. You hate offices and cities. Since you'd have to live in Switzerland at least part of the time and the job isn't office based, that's not too much of a problem. There's lots of countryside you might enjoy. But travel by public transport in Switzerland isn't cheap either. Would you be able to hack living in the countryside alone, without initially knowing anybody?

*which would mean you can't go back easily and frequently, unless you have somewhere else to stay.

I think there are some unknown unknowns here that only you can figure out and I think the legalities of residency here are merely the tip of the iceberg.

I wish you the best of luck and hope I haven't come across as antagonistic.
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  #33  
Old 04.07.2021, 20:52
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

Does selling up mean selling a house?

As you don't sound like your main goal is emigrating from Finland, nope, I would not do that. You have 3 months probation time on jobs here and some people did not survive that! Having come here half-heartedly you would hate yourself, I guess.

Rent a room (look for Wohngemeinschaft), come here, check the place out in the three months you're not really safe anyway and make your decision after that.
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  #34  
Old 04.07.2021, 21:03
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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Even in this thread people have seemed quite accusatory and defensive, and that seems like an uncomfortable society to live in.
Good lord! Don't rely on this forum to give you any sense of what people in Switzerland are like. The only reason we all come on here is to vent.

Like anywhere in the world, Switzerland has some great things going for it and has some not so great things. It has great nature activities, but then you would have those in Finland also.

It doesn't stay dark virtually all day in Winter and it doesn't stay light all night in Summer (although latter might have some benefits....).

There aren't many countries in Europe where you can taste completely different cultures just a couple of hours away by car or by train. German to the North, French to the Southwest and Italian to the South. Complete changes of scenery at the drop of the hat.

But yes, the Swiss are a bit special...but then even the Swiss aren't uniform. The cultural issue comes into again (and even from one canton to another).

It's a great place. We all like to moan about it and we would all rather be elsewhere. But it works for the most part, better than many European countries.
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  #35  
Old 04.07.2021, 21:07
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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...Rent a room (look for Wohngemeinschaft), come here, check the place out in the three months you're not really safe anyway and make your decision after that.
What's the French equivalent of a WG, since OP plans to be near-ish to Geneva?
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  #36  
Old 04.07.2021, 21:19
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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I wish you the best of luck and hope I haven't come across as antagonistic.
Wow! Not at all - what a wonderful, detailed post. I really appreciate the time you're taking to help out

Answers to the unknowns:

How much do you want this job? How many of your boxes for leading a happy and fulfilling life does the job tick?
The employer is a lifetime ambition; the role one I could do in my sleep. It will likely be frustrating, boring and undermining a lot of the time, but has the potential to grow into the perfect job over time. I would be 100% thrilled to do it if it didn't come with relocation.

You are willing to travel, but you seem less willing to emigrate?
Indeed. I already have 4 passports thanks to previous emigration. No regrets but each one was hard work. Pre-pandemic I would travel internationally at least once a month, sometimes circling through several countries but always coming to a stable, comfortable home.

How important is your social life to you? I'm guessing it's reasonably important, since you mention that you live in a wonderful community. If you relocate, you'd obviously miss that, and you'd have to work at creating a social life here. Are you willing to put in the effort, given that you hope to be here as little as possible?
Meh. I'm very happy with my own company. The good thing about the community is that it's very diverse, international and bohemian - if I do want to step outside the house, I feel relaxed and welcomed. I'm never treated like a foreigner or an outsider.

You don't want to sell your home. Is it possible for you to rent it out while you're away, either long-term* or as an airbnb, in order to save some money?
Renting the whole house as a unit might be tough, because it's a lot bigger than most families would afford and it's full of my antique / heirloom furniture. I actually do rent a two-bed suite on Airbnb - in summer it makes enough to cover mortgage, bills etc but in winter would only cover the house's heating costs.

If you can't afford a studio or shared room (you should be able to get something from about CHF 500 per month, a bit off the beaten track), is your employer offering you enough money?
Well, good question - they haven't made the offer yet so I don't know! A search online gives me a guideline for what the salary should be, and also suggests a relocation package. Part of me wants to be prepared to negotiate the right amount.

You hate offices and cities. Since you'd have to live in Switzerland at least part of the time and the job isn't office based, that's not too much of a problem. There's lots of countryside you might enjoy. But travel by public transport in Switzerland isn't cheap either. Would you be able to hack living in the countryside alone, without initially knowing anybody?
Sounds like a dream :-D Cat, paddleboard, happy.
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  #37  
Old 04.07.2021, 21:19
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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Let's just agree that my employer has the power to grant me permission to live and work in Switzerland regardless of 'the normal rules'
Is that the famous carte de légitimation? You may check all the EF threads about it https://www.englishforum.ch/search2....e+legitimation

Swiss laws are here: https://www.eda.admin.ch/missions/mi...tion-card.html

But, while the UN tries to fix the world, there are underpaid workers under shady conditions in Switzerland, precisely outside the normal rules. A couple years ago these news were around in Swiss media, no idea if things have improved or not. Keep your eyes open

Quote:
UN consultants could fall below poverty line

After years of administrative uncertainty, short-term employees at the United Nations in Geneva are now being told to pay Swiss taxes or face fines. Consultants say that may send some of them below the national poverty line, if that’s not already the case.

‘Uber-ising’ UN jobs

“This as an ‘uberisation’ of jobs at the UN,” says Ian Richards, the head of the UN staff association. Richards, who is employed at the UN Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD), continues: “UN organisations find it cheap and easy to hire these type of employees, meaning they have supervisors, they come to work every day, doing different tasks assigned to them.” But they do not receive benefits, such as paid vacation, parental or sick leave, or social security.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politic...-line/44459914
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  #38  
Old 04.07.2021, 21:21
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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What's the French equivalent of a WG, since OP plans to be near-ish to Geneva?
appartement en colocation or just colocation.
Here's site for Switzerland in French.

You do know they have dictionaries not only for English? Ah skip that, you did put the embarrased emoj after all.
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  #39  
Old 04.07.2021, 21:23
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

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Like anywhere in the world, Switzerland has some great things going for it and has some not so great things. It has great nature activities, but then you would have those in Finland also.

It doesn't stay dark virtually all day in Winter and it doesn't stay light all night in Summer (although latter might have some benefits....).

There aren't many countries in Europe where you can taste completely different cultures just a couple of hours away by car or by train. German to the North, French to the Southwest and Italian to the South. Complete changes of scenery at the drop of the hat.

But yes, the Swiss are a bit special...but then even the Swiss aren't uniform. The cultural issue comes into again (and even from one canton to another).
Thank you - great points! Actually half my family live in the South of France and I'm sure they wouldn't mind having me live closer by...
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Old 04.07.2021, 21:45
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Re: Cheapest way to get Swiss address

Thanks for your answers. It's clarifying a few things. I didn't mean to pry, by the way.

I'm a little less worried about you relocating. Sounds like you'd be ok. But if I were you, I wouldn't even consider selling up in Finland. You love your house, you got all your treasure there and it sounds that that's where you see yourself ultimately putting down roots.

The job isn't your dream job, but it might grow into it, so we're talking long-term commitment here, I think. Given that you'd be working from home mostly, and you're introvert, I wouldn't recommend a shared room in a flat or a small studio. I'd be looking at a flat with a living room and a bedroom. So in Switzerland, that would mean a 2-room flat. I would imagine that would cost you from CHF 1,500.00, depending on how far from Geneva you want to be.

I'd do very detailed and careful costings to figure out just how much your salary and your relocation package needs to be to make this move worth your while. It's still a risk, obviously, especially since the dream job isn't a dead cert yet.
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