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Old 13.08.2021, 11:06
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Transferring savings from CH to DE

I am a former resident of Switzerland who now lives in Germany. After leaving Switzerland, I transferred my savings from a Swiss account to a new German account and then closed the Swiss account. I have read online in a few places that transfers greater than 12500 euro have to be notified to the German Bundesbank. The German Bundesbank website however, as far as I can understand, says that this does not apply for simple transfers form one account to another where both are owned by the same person. Has anyone here been in the same situation?

https://www.bundesbank.de/resource/b...ungen-data.pdf
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Old 13.08.2021, 11:09
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Re: Transferring savings from CH to DE

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I am a former resident of Switzerland who now lives in Germany. After leaving Switzerland, I transferred my savings from a Swiss account to a new German account and then closed the Swiss account. I have read online in a few places that transfers greater than 12500 euro have to be notified to the German Bundesbank. The German Bundesbank website however, as far as I can understand, says that this does not apply for simple transfers form one account to another where both are owned by the same person. Has anyone here been in the same situation?

https://www.bundesbank.de/resource/b...ungen-data.pdf
Large transactions or multiple smaller ones get flagged, nothing more. If the money is coming from an account in your name then it won’t be a suspicious transaction
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Old 13.08.2021, 11:16
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Re: Transferring savings from CH to DE

Large transfers get flagged for review by bank's internal compliance department, who have a duty to detect and report suspicious money laundering and terrorist financing transactions. it doesn't matter that accounts have same owners, though that of course helps you clear compliance more easily than a large unexplained transfer from an unrelated party - in case which case they will probably ask you for further documentation about particulars of that transaction
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Old 13.08.2021, 11:17
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Re: Transferring savings from CH to DE

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Large transactions or multiple smaller ones get flagged, nothing more. If the money is coming from an account in your name then it won’t be a suspicious transaction
Thanks.
What I am looking to know is whether or not I need to contact the German Bundesbank via their website to report the transfer. ("AWV-Meldepflicht ")
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Old 13.08.2021, 11:18
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Re: Transferring savings from CH to DE

The bank has the obligation to report, not you - why would they trust you mr money launderer/terrorist financier to willingly submit evidence against yourself??
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Old 13.08.2021, 11:25
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Re: Transferring savings from CH to DE

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Large transfers get flagged for review by bank's internal compliance department, who have a duty to detect and report suspicious money laundering and terrorist financing transactions. it doesn't matter that accounts have same owners, though that of course helps you clear compliance more easily than a large unexplained transfer from an unrelated party - in case which case they will probably ask you for further documentation about particulars of that transaction
I made a few transfers, all greater than 125000 euro. These were done over a year ago and I never heard anything from my bank.
This week I came across by chance online a few different websites saying that ALL transfers over 12500 must be reported to the German Bundesbank.

The Bundesbank itself has an FAQ which says

Sind reine Kontoüberträge meldepflichtig?
Reine Kontoüberträge (vom Inlandskonto auf das Auslandskonto oder umgekehrt) sind nach §§ 67 ff. AWV nicht meldepflichtig. Es ist zu beachten, dass Zahlungen, die von dem Auslandskonto an Ausländer geleistet oder auf dem Auslandskonto von Ausländern entgegengenommen werden, gemäß dem jeweiligen Grundgeschäft auf Anlage Z 4 zu melden sind.


If I understand the above correctly, which I am not sure that I do as I am not an expert at German, simple account transfers which do not involve payments for goods or services are exempt.

I have tried using online translators but they are no help in understanding this rather technical issue.
As not reporting transfers by the following month carries a potential fine of up to 30000 Euro per transfer, I am a bit worried.
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Old 13.08.2021, 11:30
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Re: Transferring savings from CH to DE

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The bank has the obligation to report, not you - why would they trust you mr money launderer/terrorist financier to willingly submit evidence against yourself??
One website says

Nach § 11 Außenwirtschaftsgesetz (AWG) in Verbindung mit §§ 67 ff. Außenwirtschaftsverordnung (AWV) unterliegen Auslandsüberweisungen ab einem Betrag von 12.500 € oder Gegenwert der AWV-Meldepflicht und müssen der Bundesbank gemeldet werden. Die Meldung muss bis zum 7. Kalendertag des auf die Zahlung oder Leistung folgenden Monats erfolgen.

Pursuant to Section 11 of the Foreign Trade and Payments Act (AWG) in conjunction with Sections 67 et seq. Foreign Trade and Payments Ordinance (AWV), foreign transfers of an amount of € 12,500 or equivalent are subject to the AWV reporting requirement and must be reported to the Bundesbank. The report must be submitted by the 7th calendar day of the month following the payment or service.

No idea why it is up to the person making the transfer to report it, probably to do with German Data Protection law.
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Old 13.08.2021, 11:35
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Re: Transferring savings from CH to DE

Is this the document you're referring to? https://www.bundesbank.de/resource/b...ungen-data.pdf


Seems to be additional german-specific piece of legislation, in addition to compliance checks that you'll encounter everywhere in developed world



> Wer ist meldepflichtig und was ist zu melden? Gemäß § 11 Außenwirtschaftsgesetz (AWG) in Verbindung mit §§ 67 ff. Außenwirtschafts-verordnung (AWV) haben Inländer (in Deutschland ansässige natürliche und juristischePersonen) Zahlungen von mehr als 12 500 Euro oder Gegenwert zu melden, die sie vo nAusländern (im Ausland ansässige natürliche und juristische Personen) oder für derenRechnung von Inländern entgegennehmen (eingehende Zahlungen) oder an Ausländer oderfür deren Rechnung an Inländer leisten (ausgehende Zahlungen



This says you're obliged to report transfer yourself. But this only applies to german resident taking a payment from german non-residents. I don't think you can be both at the same time



> Sind reine Kontoüberträge meldepflichtig? Reine Kontoüberträge (vom Inlandskonto auf das Auslandskonto oder umgekehrt) sind nach §§ 67 ff. AWV nicht meldepflichtig.


Pure transfers (as opposed to payments from goods/services) aren't to be reported either
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Old 13.08.2021, 11:37
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Re: Transferring savings from CH to DE

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The bank has the obligation to report, not you - why would they trust you mr money launderer/terrorist financier to willingly submit evidence against yourself??
In Germany, you self report. The bank has a different reporting system in parallel.
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Old 13.08.2021, 11:40
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Re: Transferring savings from CH to DE

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Is this the document you're referring to? https://www.bundesbank.de/resource/b...ungen-data.pdf
YES

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Seems to be additional german-specific piece of legislation, in addition to compliance checks that you'll encounter everywhere in developed world



> Wer ist meldepflichtig und was ist zu melden? Gemäß § 11 Außenwirtschaftsgesetz (AWG) in Verbindung mit §§ 67 ff. Außenwirtschafts-verordnung (AWV) haben Inländer (in Deutschland ansässige natürliche und juristischePersonen) Zahlungen von mehr als 12 500 Euro oder Gegenwert zu melden, die sie vo nAusländern (im Ausland ansässige natürliche und juristische Personen) oder für derenRechnung von Inländern entgegennehmen (eingehende Zahlungen) oder an Ausländer oderfür deren Rechnung an Inländer leisten (ausgehende Zahlungen



This says you're obliged to report transfer yourself. But this only applies to german resident taking a payment from german non-residents. I don't think you can be both at the same time
GOOD POINT

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> Sind reine Kontoüberträge meldepflichtig? Reine Kontoüberträge (vom Inlandskonto auf das Auslandskonto oder umgekehrt) sind nach §§ 67 ff. AWV nicht meldepflichtig.


Pure transfers (as opposed to payments from goods/services) aren't to be reported either
Thanks, I hope that you are right. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has been in a similar situation.
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Old 13.08.2021, 16:18
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Re: Transferring savings from CH to DE

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Thanks, I hope that you are right. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has been in a similar situation.
What does your bank say, the one you have the receiving account with?
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Old 13.08.2021, 19:57
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Re: Transferring savings from CH to DE

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I made a few transfers, all greater than 125000 euro. These were done over a year ago and I never heard anything from my bank.
This week I came across by chance online a few different websites saying that ALL transfers over 12500 must be reported to the German Bundesbank.

The Bundesbank itself has an FAQ which says

Sind reine Kontoüberträge meldepflichtig?
Reine Kontoüberträge (vom Inlandskonto auf das Auslandskonto oder umgekehrt) sind nach §§ 67 ff. AWV nicht meldepflichtig. Es ist zu beachten, dass Zahlungen, die von dem Auslandskonto an Ausländer geleistet oder auf dem Auslandskonto von Ausländern entgegengenommen werden, gemäß dem jeweiligen Grundgeschäft auf Anlage Z 4 zu melden sind.


If I understand the above correctly, which I am not sure that I do as I am not an expert at German, simple account transfers which do not involve payments for goods or services are exempt.

I have tried using online translators but they are no help in understanding this rather technical issue.
As not reporting transfers by the following month carries a potential fine of up to 30000 Euro per transfer, I am a bit worried.
Your German bank needs to report the transfers I would think. If there was an issue or they needed more info then your German bank would call you and ask for justfication for the transfers.

In any case you should ask your bank for advice not here.
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Old 13.08.2021, 21:24
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Re: Transferring savings from CH to DE

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I am a former resident of Switzerland who now lives in Germany. After leaving Switzerland, I transferred my savings from a Swiss account to a new German account and then closed the Swiss account. I have read online in a few places that transfers greater than 12500 euro have to be notified to the German Bundesbank. The German Bundesbank website however, as far as I can understand, says that this does not apply for simple transfers form one account to another where both are owned by the same person. Has anyone here been in the same situation?

https://www.bundesbank.de/resource/b...ungen-data.pdf
Someone I know ran into the same issue some months ago, the issue was that the accounts had different names (his and his wife). As you write, if both accounts in Switzerland and in Germany are on your name, you have no obligation to report.


Sind reine Kontoüberträge meldepflichtig?
Reine Kontoüberträge (vom Inlandskonto auf das Auslandskonto oder umgekehrt) sind nach §§ 67 ff. AWV nicht meldepflichtig. Es ist zu beachten, dass Zahlungen, die von dem Auslandskonto an Ausländer geleistet oder auf dem Auslandskonto von Ausländern entgegengenommen werden, gemäß dem jeweiligen Grundgeschäft auf Anlage Z 4 zu
melden sind.



On a side note, Germany is becoming more and more a police state. Knowing the not so far away past, that's creepy.
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Old 14.08.2021, 07:08
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Re: Transferring savings from CH to DE

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Someone I know ran into the same issue some months ago, the issue was that the accounts had different names (his and his wife). As you write, if both accounts in Switzerland and in Germany are on your name, you have no obligation to report.


Sind reine Kontoüberträge meldepflichtig?
Reine Kontoüberträge (vom Inlandskonto auf das Auslandskonto oder umgekehrt) sind nach §§ 67 ff. AWV nicht meldepflichtig. Es ist zu beachten, dass Zahlungen, die von dem Auslandskonto an Ausländer geleistet oder auf dem Auslandskonto von Ausländern entgegengenommen werden, gemäß dem jeweiligen Grundgeschäft auf Anlage Z 4 zu
melden sind.



On a side note, Germany is becoming more and more a police state. Knowing the not so far away past, that's creepy.
Thanks, yes both accounts are in my name.
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