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  #21  
Old 15.09.2021, 09:33
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Re: Early retirement questions

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I say it is the worst investment and a complete waste of time
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Old 15.09.2021, 09:41
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Re: Early retirement questions

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I say it is the worst investment and a complete waste of time

Goasts are far better investment, you can at least eat them, whilst kids tend to be a bit chewy
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  #23  
Old 15.09.2021, 09:44
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Re: Early retirement questions

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You also have to be aware of hedonic adaptation. I recall being taken to a restaurant with an ex-gf in the mountains. It was a place she'd gone many times for skiing as a child.

Afterwards, she turned to me somewhat disappointed and said: "You know, a few years ago, I would have thought that this was a good meal." After a few years of living in London and enjoying the restaurants there, she'd been spoiled and her tastes and expectations shifted. Yet her subjective experience of enjoyment as a kid would not have been that much different than enjoyment at a posh restaurant in London.

In the same way, we can spend more and more on marginal improvements (if there are improvements at all - just look at audiophiles and their super-expensive equipment with only placebo-like benefits) which don't really benefit us at all.
I think hedonic adaptation is "pamper myself" culture. It is mocked back home really. I totally agree on snobism and placebo. Guys and girls are alike in this. I don't want to sound like a partypooper, surtout since Bohemians are nuts themselves. But life is short, when you are 70-80 your priorities will be different than posh dinners and fancy vehicles. That's what we think now that we should have when old, but most of this changes somewhere around 60-65, depending on a diagnose.

When we are old, whether we smoke a cigar from some weird little place or look at a sunset from a yacht, we will want to hang with family and friends, mostly. And you don't need really expensive wine for that. Older one gets, less attached to stuff one is. (I still really like cars and will, but don't need to have any)
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  #24  
Old 15.09.2021, 09:59
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Re: Early retirement questions

I have been thinking of leaving Switzerland and retiring "soon" in a cheaper country. Like at 50-55, but I am not loaded like EF folks, so I need to think carefully. I was speaking with a guy recently, and he told me how much he earns (around 5 times more than me) yet he was moaning about how expensive Switzerland is What chance do foreign goat herders like me have here

Money in the bank is of no use if you don't even reach retirement age. There is no happily ever after in my opinion, so I am trying my best to live for now. The older you get, the more medical issues will crop up and impact your quality of life. Currently, I have a very happy life overall and it has been so for the last 25 years, but the pendulum will swing one day.

Recently when I went missing from EF for a month, I was hiking all over Switzerland, and I was having a blast. Solitude and peace in nature with my goats is what I enjoy the most.
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Old 15.09.2021, 10:01
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Re: Early retirement questions

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Absolutely! I am sacrificing the now to a certain extent but really only so far as size of current dwelling and the car we drive.
The issue is that after a certain age eyesight, motor coordination, and hearing decay. So, beyond the price, large or powerful cars are for the (relatively) young and healthy. After some point, no need to sacrifice because public transport and taxis will the only option.
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Old 15.09.2021, 10:05
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Re: Early retirement questions

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The issue is that after a certain age eyesight, motor coordination, and hearing decay. So, beyond the price, large or powerful cars are for the (relatively) young and healthy. After some point, no need to sacrifice because public transport and taxis will the only option.
It's not just driving. Most of us will have Alzheimers, unless we start stressing less, avoid viruses and inflamation, eat better and start moving much more.

I read some papers on earlier onset of senility and dementia related to quiting one's career.
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Old 15.09.2021, 10:06
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Re: Early retirement questions

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The issue is that after a certain age eyesight, motor coordination, and hearing decay. So, beyond the price, large or powerful cars are for the (relatively) young and healthy. After some point, no need to sacrifice because public transport and taxis will the only option.
Heathen! If I ever reach that age I will pay to be driven in large and powerful cars.
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  #28  
Old 15.09.2021, 10:07
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Re: Early retirement questions

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It's not just driving. Most of us will have Alzheimers, unless we start stressing less, avoid viruses and inflamation, eat better and start moving much more.

Most of my problems were caused by moving too much, too much running, too much fitness etc
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  #29  
Old 15.09.2021, 10:07
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Re: Early retirement questions

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Precisely. I feel time is more of a limiting factor now. Admittedly this is a very privileged position to be in and being made redundant before I am ready to quit would throw a spanner in the works.

With infinite money:
I would live somewhere with better weather - retirement plan
I would spend more time doing sport - retirement plan
I would spend more time cooking from scratch (including things like making my own bacon) - retirement plan
I would spend more time in the pub - retirement plan
obviously, you can do more when you're not working, but also, you can do a lot of those things pre-retirement.

with work from home, cooking from scratch is a doddle and the time saved on commute can be used to do some exercise.
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Old 15.09.2021, 10:09
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Re: Early retirement questions

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I hope that you are able to do so without sacrificing the now and will be able to have a comfortable retirement. From the little I‘ve read of FIRE it seems to be all about living like a hermit while working and eating beans 3 times a day in retirement. That really isn‘t my plan. If it were, I could probably stop tomorrow.
I don't mind being something of a hermit if I can live like a king after early retirement, not eat beans!

I think I could retire at 45 if I hadn't had kids. But I probably wouldn't want to. 55 or so sounds about right.
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  #31  
Old 15.09.2021, 10:12
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Re: Early retirement questions

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I don't mind being something of a hermit if I can live like a king after early retirement, not eat beans!

I love beans!!! All types!!!
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  #32  
Old 15.09.2021, 10:12
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Re: Early retirement questions

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Most of my problems were caused by moving too much, too much running, too much fitness etc
A bit of self care...you gotta learn it one day. Leave some time for art and music

I overdosed on gym and sports too. It's good to have other endorphines too, though.
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Old 15.09.2021, 10:14
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Re: Early retirement questions

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It's not just driving. Most of us will have Alzheimers, unless we start stressing less, avoid viruses and inflamation, eat better and start moving much more.

I read some papers on earlier onset of senility and dementia related to quiting one's career.
I’ve heard a few cases of people dropping dead shortly after retirement and your post highlights the importance of having a sense of purpose after one’s career has ended. It’s very important to keep the mind sharp.

For me, retirement begins when I no longer have to sell my time (typically 40+ hours per week) for money. I will still ‘work’ and dedicate time to various interests etc. Learning is a life long endeavour.
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  #34  
Old 15.09.2021, 10:32
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Re: Early retirement questions

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I’ve heard a few cases of people dropping dead shortly after retirement and your post highlights the importance of having a sense of purpose after one’s career has ended. It’s very important to keep the mind sharp.

For me, retirement begins when I no longer have to sell my time (typically 40+ hours per week) for money. I will still ‘work’ and dedicate time to various interests etc. Learning is a life long endeavour.
I met someone like that in.....some workplace. Retired for 1st time at 65 YO, keeps working for the company as freelancer. The contract said freelancer but kept using the same office as the last 30 years. During covid times, one of the few that rejected working from home and kept going to the office. If one day this person cannot enter the office building I wouldn't be surprised about dropping dead.
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  #35  
Old 15.09.2021, 10:32
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Re: Early retirement questions

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I love beans!!! All types!!!
Bananas! Or jumping beans?

I love all pulses, tbh. And those big green ones - les fèves?

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I’ve heard a few cases of people dropping dead shortly after retirement and your post highlights the importance of having a sense of purpose after one’s career has ended. It’s very important to keep the mind sharp.
Indeed.

But imagine you are lucky and have your career as a hobby, the entire life. You know - when people retire and sneak out to go fishing or a pub but you actually go to work. That kinda thing. That's what I grew up in and that's what I have. So - if you can turn your work into meaningful passion, you actually don't need to retire. It feeds you mentally and boosts you health wise, you keep doing your research, publish..volunteer. But hours and flexibility matter, I know. Maybe I am a dreamer who needs little. A naieve fluke.

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For me, retirement begins when I no longer have to sell my time (typically 40+ hours per week) for money. I will still ‘work’ and dedicate time to various interests etc. Learning is a life long endeavour.
Yeah, this. I see my close ones prescribing meds for eachother and camping on duolingo, laughing a lot, some Bordeaux, it's a good life. Minus the covid isolation, we will get stats on this horrendous damage in a few years.

Still the amount of people who kept active after retirement was not so high, health issues followed, brain health declined. People - look for choirs, they have quite a few happy pensioners and crazy amount of decadent fun.

I think Phil made a good point about homeoffice - I take it a bit as a bridge between real work and retirement, adaptation period, part-time work, too.
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  #36  
Old 15.09.2021, 10:45
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Re: Early retirement questions

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obviously, you can do more when you're not working, but also, you can do a lot of those things pre-retirement.

with work from home, cooking from scratch is a doddle and the time saved on commute can be used to do some exercise.
Yes I can and I do. COVID has highlighted how important some of those things are to me and made me assess whether I could bring forward plans to retire, which I have by 5 years.

I already aim to spend 10 hours a week exercising, but rarely hit it. That and recovering from it already takes up quite a lot of time that could be spent on other things. Cooking from scratch I mean things that take a long time mainly on the barbecue. My fun car (and it‘s likely subsequent upgrade) don‘t get driven enough either because of how my time is allocated. That will also change.

As mentioned by Polymath keeping your mind sharp is also super important. I like to think I do that anyway and will continue to do so.

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I don't mind being something of a hermit if I can live like a king after early retirement, not eat beans!

I think I could retire at 45 if I hadn't had kids. But I probably wouldn't want to. 55 or so sounds about right.
Whilst I am very content with my little domestic kingdom, I still want to get out and see my friends and experience new things.

Kids are a game changer for sure. I‘m sure someone posted a statistic here several years ago that in Switzerland the average cost of raising a child was CHF 250k. From a purely financial perspective, the opportunity cost of that missing income is huge. They obviously bring rewards to many people that cannot be measured though.
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It's not just driving. Most of us will have Alzheimers, unless we start stressing less, avoid viruses and inflamation, eat better and start moving much more.
A good reason to free yourself of work commitments as soon as possible and enjoy the health that you have left.
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  #37  
Old 15.09.2021, 11:03
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Re: Early retirement questions

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A good reason to free yourself of work commitments as soon as possible...
We clock in fewer hours. They are super intense and after health staff if I remember well, edu were no.2 in burn-out. But time usually is not the issue, we organize half the time as we need.

I think having work as a meaningful passion is the issue for me. Too much of it, and one wants to retire tomorrow, out of fatigue. The other extreme - not enjoying one's work or working only out of obligation or cash, is also unhealthy and one wants out as soon as possible. So...CZ has called educated and achieved retired army reservists to back up the school fronts and sub a bit, the one we experienced was really awesome. No bullying ever, on top. Minimal interventions. But teachers get peanuts back there, it's a heart matter (and brain health).
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Old 15.09.2021, 11:06
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Re: Early retirement questions

about voluntary AHV contributions.

My (possibly mistaken) understanding is that whereas the money you pay into AHV is somehow income based, what you get out is capped. So if you are on a, ahem, expat, sort of salary. you probably pay in much more than you get out.

if you want to strengthen your pension, it would make more sense to make voluntary payments into your second pillar, consider a third pillar, or just save up and invest by yourself..
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Old 15.09.2021, 11:12
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Re: Early retirement questions

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How's your liver?

Wasn't there a famous quote from a French doctor who said, red wine, when drunk in moderation, has more benefits than it causes harm.

When later asked what he considered to be "moderation", he said, not more than a bottle a day.
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Old 15.09.2021, 11:15
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Re: Early retirement questions

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Goasts are far better investment, you can at least eat them, whilst kids tend to be a bit chewy
maybe Ticino Tom can work wonders with his smoker?
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