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  #41  
Old 27.09.2021, 08:06
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

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They did inform me some time ago
Ah that is Ok then.
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  #42  
Old 27.09.2021, 09:04
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

UBS sent a letter to advise of the changes. IIRC the limit was for accounts over 250k or if you have a mortgage with them over 750k. it was anyway high enough that i didn't need to think about it.
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  #43  
Old 27.09.2021, 10:41
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

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UBS sent a letter to advise of the changes. IIRC the limit was for accounts over 250k or if you have a mortgage with them over 750k. it was anyway high enough that i didn't need to think about it.
Sounds good then; it would be even better if this was made public through their website so that people can evaluate which banks offer better conditions. With the high cost of living in Switzerland and pricing in the housing market, 250K is not such a high amount; I reckon this is like if HSBC introduced negative rates at 100K quids threshold in UK which I guess some people would complain about.
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  #44  
Old 27.09.2021, 10:59
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

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Sounds good then; it would be even better if this was made public through their website so that people can evaluate which banks offer better conditions. With the high cost of living in Switzerland and pricing in the housing market, 250K is not such a high amount; I reckon this is like if HSBC introduced negative rates at 100K quids threshold in UK which I guess some people would complain about.
you can also see overviews online here: https://www.moneyland.ch/en/swiss-ba...interest-rates
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  #45  
Old 27.09.2021, 15:06
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

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Does CLER deal with Americans?
Yes!
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  #46  
Old 27.09.2021, 15:20
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Re: Avoiding Negative Interest Rate: Which Bank?

Am I missing out on something but why not many people switch to Revolut, etc to avoid fees with traditional banks?
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  #47  
Old 27.09.2021, 16:33
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Re: Avoiding Negative Interest Rate: Which Bank?

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Am I missing out on something but why not many people switch to Revolut, etc to avoid fees with traditional banks?

They don't have a good reputation, they block accounts for nmo real reason and it takes days or weeks to resolve the problem, the Swiss are conservative and prefer their own banks be it UBS/CS or Post or Cantonal banks.


A lot of people hold enough $$ or have mortgages with banks to avoid any fees on their account
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  #48  
Old 27.09.2021, 18:13
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Re: Avoiding Negative Interest Rate: Which Bank?

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Am I missing out on something but why not many people switch to Revolut, etc to avoid fees with traditional banks?
My experience in four words: great concept, shitty service.
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  #49  
Old 27.09.2021, 20:02
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

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Sounds good then; it would be even better if this was made public through their website so that people can evaluate which banks offer better conditions. With the high cost of living in Switzerland and pricing in the housing market, 250K is not such a high amount; I reckon this is like if HSBC introduced negative rates at 100K quids threshold in UK which I guess some people would complain about.
The thing that causes me most worry tbh is that any loss on your account due to bank collapses (very recent history) is only covered up to CHF 100‘000 on any bank account, at any bank in Switzerland. So it‘s kind of a choice between spreading it around amongst different banks (and then guessing which bank will be able to cover it), 3a pillars etc. if you want to keep it safe, or hiding it under your mattress.

Or does anyone have other info.?
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  #50  
Old 27.09.2021, 21:06
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

Great you mentioned up to 100k CHF.
FINMA provides a cover up to 6bn CHF totally.
More details in the link below how the deposit protection scheme works.
https://www.finma.ch/en/~/media/finm...agen.pdf?la=en

Last edited by MazingaZ; 27.09.2021 at 21:46.
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  #51  
Old 28.09.2021, 10:06
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Re: Avoiding Negative Interest Rate: Which Bank?

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Am I missing out on something but why not many people switch to Revolut, etc to avoid fees with traditional banks?

My friend had his PayPal business account with thousands of Francs in it permanently blocked for no reason. No discussion possible, nor do they say why it was locked. Friend has to wait 6 months before he can get it back, assuming he can get it back!
If Revolut is anything like that, then you can understand the fear. With UBS I can walk into a branch and find the reason etc.

I have a PayPal business account, but I empty it every day.
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  #52  
Old 28.09.2021, 10:08
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Re: Avoiding Negative Interest Rate: Which Bank?

From one of the links-

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Zürcher Kantonalbank: Negative interest rates possible for accounts with high balances.
So UBS is CHF250k, any idea about ZKB?
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  #53  
Old 28.09.2021, 10:22
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

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The thing that causes me most worry tbh is that any loss on your account due to bank collapses (very recent history) is only covered up to CHF 100‘000 on any bank account, at any bank in Switzerland. So it‘s kind of a choice between spreading it around amongst different banks (and then guessing which bank will be able to cover it), 3a pillars etc. if you want to keep it safe, or hiding it under your mattress.

Or does anyone have other info.?
So when exactly did in very recent history any Kantonalbank - owned by the Swiss state - blow up?
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  #54  
Old 28.09.2021, 10:48
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

Here's a Moneyland article and list of negative interest thresholds for many major Swiss banks (English):

https://www.moneyland.ch/en/swiss-ba...interest-rates
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  #55  
Old 28.09.2021, 14:24
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

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So when exactly did in very recent history any Kantonalbank - owned by the Swiss state - blow up?
That's a misnomer as a Kantonalbank is by definition owned by a Canton, not the federation. It can be a bit confusing though, a Canton is indeed called "Staat" at times, for instance the cantonal income tax is called "StaatsSteuer".

The respective canton's StaatsGarantie (cantonal indemnity I guess) makes sure they don't blow up, but the bank still may need to be salvaged and recapitalised, the indemnity merely shifts the burden from the creditor to the Canton (and hopefully reduces the economic loss as a consequence). In some cases the actual need to recapitalise lead to the removal of the indemnity, see Berne's (BEKB) and Geneva's (BCGE) after massive losses incurred during the real estate crisis of the 90ies. VD's (BCVD) had to be recapitalised by the Canton even though there was no formal indemnity in place, the damage its bankrupcy would caused would have been far too big.

IIRC AR's (Appenzell Ausserrhoden's, ARKB while it existed) had to be sold to UBS a couple decades ago for the same reason. Solothurn's (SOKB) had to be sold (IIRC to the Bankverein before the fusion of SBV+UBS, so indirectly to UBS as well) due to losses incurred due to the real estate crisis of 90ies, too.

GLKB (Glarus) may have seen its indemnity removed by now, after massive losses that materialised in 2008 as a consequence of their expansioin, otherwise the Canton seems likely to remove it in the foreseeable future. The fact that the bank's balance sheet is 3-4x the Canton's GDP, and that the increase in recent years has been mostly caused by an increase of mortgages lent, won't help the bank either.


(all four-letter acronyms above are the respective Cantonal bank's shorthand "name")
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  #56  
Old 28.09.2021, 14:43
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

Essentially if the Zurcherkantonal Bank (ZKB) fails and the canton of Zurich cannot afford to support it and collapses itself, the whole of Switzerland goes down and with it the rest of the western, and probably eastern, economies.

I did ask the ZKB how secure they were before depositing with them - and that‘s what the told me…

Last edited by AbFab; 29.09.2021 at 08:49. Reason: Correcting incorrect predictive taxt…
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  #57  
Old 28.09.2021, 19:51
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

The last bank run/crash in Switzerland:



https://www.derbund.ch/wirtschaft/ba...story/19639955
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  #58  
Old 28.09.2021, 20:03
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

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I did ask the ZKB how secure they were before depositing with them - and that‘s what the stole me
They used to be rather less upfront. Not that it will change the outcome.
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  #59  
Old 28.09.2021, 20:18
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

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So when exactly did in very recent history any Kantonalbank - owned by the Swiss state - blow up?
Not a „Kantonalbank“, but do you not remember this? I do. By the way, I was lucky enough to have pulled-out all my family investments and savings shortly before the collapse (yes, my near family is from xxxxxx, in Thun, with property and savings accumulated there since generations).

https://www.derbund.ch/wirtschaft/ba...story/19639955

And I am sure that you have heard of all the „Big Banks must not fail Programmes“ since then that are top priority in at at least UBS since around then.

It‘s a very, very thin line…

So you need to be aware of what loss you are covered for in the next crash.
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  #60  
Old 28.09.2021, 20:32
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Re: Negative Interest Rates

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Not a „Kantonalbank“, but do you not remember this? I do.
Actually no, I had no idea about that. (Mostly because I was busy being a school kid in another country back then...)

I do remember bailing out UBS with my tax money, so I thought this would never happen to any significant bank in Switzerland ever - the whole business model of Swiss banking is trust and security - if I was lookin for skills might I also go to the US or London and I am for sure not looking at Switzerland to have good value for money... so the single reason the rich people of the world park their money here is stability and safety. So simply put: the Swiss government would do anything in their power to prevent that from happening - not to save those investments but to save the Swiss banking industry - the fallout if one of the large ones would go bust would be brutal.
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