certainly not in Southern Spain

If we have to move, we would not go to the Algarve, but the Porto area.

Oh the grass can be greener, but as Jackie says, if you're not there all year you probably missed the bit where they fertilise it with the product of pig digestion.

Cows round here- but I knew about that long before we moved here

We had a group of musicians coming here recently from the main town below, so we could arrange a concert for them later this year. I apologised as the farmer had spread manure in the fields at the back a couple of days earlier. Nooo, they said, don't apologise, we love it. 2 of them asked to be on the list for when we are ready to sell (got 6 candidates already ) but they will have to wait at least 10 years.

I would not. The UK is not the place to be as you get older with the State od the NHS as it is. Getting private health care post retirement, and if pre-existing conditions, would be impossible or massively expensive, with so many exclusions.



http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1a...d3c7b0fbfd9ccd

It seems at last that the mainstream media are waking up to this elephant in the room. Extraordinary that 1000s of deaths more than could be reasonably expected going by without notice, let alone investigation.

1000 excess death currently, 1600 during Christmas week. People dying in ambulances, in corridors, or on their floor at home- impossible to see a GP or get an ambulance in an emergency/stroke/heart attack, when every second counts! Massive waiting lists even for urgent cancer treatment, or essential operations, never mind hip replacements and the like. Not a good place to be old.

Perhaps a worthwhile exercise for someone to do. Shop around for Private Heathcare in UK, Spire/Bupa, Nuffield, etc, as a new client, 65 and over (and then add a couple of pre-existing conditions, heart, kidneys, diabetes, ex smoke, a few kilos extra, etc)- and tell us what you come up with.

Or instead take some worthwhile exercise which may help with some of the conditions you listed.

Isn't that the Swiss way? Self-responsibility?

Not all health issues are related to lifestyle. Some are genetically inherited- some caused by very unfortunate circumstances like a staph infection at a young age, meningitis, or an accident through no fault of one's own.

Bupa/Spire don't care. If you are over 65- end of!

My educated guess is that this is how it's going to look everywhere, at some point in the future.

Of course, the reality is much more complicated than "all the old farts sitting around all day, eating and drinking, are causing the health-system to crash".

But that would eat into someones profit - so you can bet everybody will take the easy road.

Its a complicated ethical debate, but the principle is simple: Our modern healthcare makes us all on average live far longer lives than before. However, every change in retirement age is a political battle and only trailing the reality... putting most western retirement systems into financial trouble. Older, retired people cause a massive part of healthcare costs. Not just because they have more issues than younger people, but they seem to simply also use the system more than a person who is still working full time. While everyone wants everyone to get every treatment paid they desire... there is a limit to what the system can bear. And a limit of insurance premiums we are willing to pay. Some countries are stricter than others but the direction is the same for all... the difficult thing is to draw the line what is paid and what not and from what ages things change.

It's actually a deeper problem: all the participants in the health-care system are working for a profit.

If we cut healthcare at 67 (or 70), hospitals would be massively underfunded, due to lack of patients. Big Pharma would sell a lot less meds, resulting in a big drop in their share-prices. Doctors would also be able to prescribe less and pharmacies would sell less.

Health-insurances would make huge profits, of course - but then they'd have to lower premiums and thus make less turnaround. They'd also need less people - and at some point, their CEOs salaries would come under discussion again....

Because this is all not desirable (for those who profit from the status-quo), everybody would quickly find ways to charge more for everything, so they don't come up short.

Sure, this is a part of the issue. But cutting off healthcare at a certain age wouldn't change that, nor would it alter demand (though perhaps ability to pay, subject to what the current system would get replaced by).

However the cost difference between Europe and the US in GDP terms seems to demonstrate that the pricing systems differ not just in their total cost, but the less expensive one seems to even produce better results (longer expected life). There's a difference between "I need to make a living, preferably a nice one" and "I want to gain the most possible whatever the consequences". For instance, plastic surgery seems to be much less prevalent in Europe.

With that said, I wonder what the effect of overweight and obesity are on that. While its consquences are clearly negative for the individual, the resulting lifetime costs might be less than those from a longer life. Because the last years in life cause the highest cost, and the higher the age at which they're lived the higher the cost per year. Thus, a cynic might argue that shifting the last years to a younger age might actually result in a cost reduction. Case in point are the smokers.

Assuming the person needs medical treatment and doesn't just die of old age.

Not everyone who gets old, gets ill.

How much does "pointless" lung cancer treatment cost per year (only one or two years)?
How much does a leg amputation cost?

not if you have children and GCs in the UK. A bit far. Here we can jump in the car, train or plane and be in UK in a day. Live in Switzerland to have the choice- but close to family for very regular visits both ways. Can't do that from Canada!

Feel free to inform yourself on how statistics and averages work.

Feel free to inform yourself that your beloved Swiss "self-responsibility" also should apply to people looking after themselves.

Your past pro-smoking campaigning on this forum just doesn't go with that.

My Swiss Grandmother died at the age of 97 just a few years ago, and I‘d never known her to be be sick - ever. My Swiss grandfather followed at the age of 98 four weeks later. They were both fit (mentally and physically), healthy and fully mobile (except Oma needed a walking stick occasionally in the later years.

Never smoked, were in good shape and enjoyed a tipple with the rest of us.

That‘s good enough statistics for me personally.

I thought this thread is supposed to be about retiring, not dying.

Many factors play a role when deciding where to retire. I suppose for some people retiring in a country where you can choose your right to die is important.

Yes, the cost of health insurance is very relevant for retired persons, (and also for those not retired) but then one also needs to consider the quality and availability of medical care, particularly specialists.

Some people take into consideration where most of their family and extended family live when choosing where to retire.

When you are young and have the opportunity to relocate to another country, I am not sure retirement is even on your mind. It is something in the distant future, and doesn't seem relevant at the time.

For married people, where spouses have different "home" countries, retiring back in one's home country may not be a simple option.

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A retirement location should be where one is happy, familiar with, speak the language, has friends/family/contacts and can afford it.

To me, it seems bonkers to trot off at 65 to a country you know little of and don't speak the language - but many do.

As to a "millionaire", this is a silly expression. Many of us who own our own homes could be deemed millionaires. I suppose the OP means 'filthy rich'.

I know people who lived decades in Switzerland and brought families up here who, on their retirement, went straight back to where they lived in the UK. They then spent their lives comparing how poor the UK is compared to here...

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Fed up of smoking? 10 tips to quit in 10 days

Indeed.

Different for me as I grew up here- know the region like my back pocket, and always maintained good relations with many friends. Same for OH who go to know many good people and was always really welcomed, during our 100s of visits since we met in London, 53 years ago.

As mentioned in the first post. A few million. Which is about 2 to 3. Which is probably what one needs to retire, without any income, in this god ordained land.