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  #21  
Old 13.09.2023, 13:45
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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I was waiting for the 1st stupid answer and you got it - congrats!

Others have provided a lot of helpful insights so I do appreciate that. I wasn't looking for precisions but rather ideas & suggestions (it's in the 1st post)

have a nice day
You literally asked or it.
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  #22  
Old 13.09.2023, 18:54
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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Something's missing, you need to differentiate between income and wealth tax.

200k net income costs you around 43k.
4kk taxable wealth costs you 30k.
Combined you're at around 35% of income.

No church tax assumed, kids 9+11. Here's the toy for you to play with.
Is that supposed to be 400k (or even 499k). That would mean wealth tax of between 6 and 7.5%


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interesting, will look into that, thanks
If you earn over a certain amount (varies by pension fund - I think mine is around CHF 126k) there is often the opportunity to invest in the so called 1e, where there is a lot more freedom to invest in riskier assets. I think mine has a fund which is 70% equities. While it's not the same as being able to go all in on crypto (as an extreme example of "investing"), for most people it offers far closer to what they would get from a general investment account, while still keeping the tax advantages.
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  #23  
Old 14.09.2023, 16:40
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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Is that supposed to be 400k (or even 499k).
k is kilo, a thousand. kk is a thousand kilos, 4kk four millions.
Marginal tax rate is 0.8%, for approximation you could assume that the first 300k are free, or alternatively reduce the tax due by 2-3k.

The 126k is set by the regulator, it's 129k this year. 132k next year.

Last edited by Urs Max; 14.09.2023 at 16:52.
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  #24  
Old 14.09.2023, 18:06
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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k is kilo, a thousand. kk is a thousand kilos, 4kk four millions.
Although this breaks the formal rules for metric prefixes.

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Prefixes may not be used in combination on a single symbol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_prefix
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  #25  
Old 14.09.2023, 18:26
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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k is kilo, a thousand. kk is a thousand kilos, 4kk four millions.
Marginal tax rate is 0.8%, for approximation you could assume that the first 300k are free, or alternatively reduce the tax due by 2-3k.

The 126k is set by the regulator, it's 129k this year. 132k next year.
I thought that after I’d written it, but as noted below it’s absolutely not standard. Also doesn’t make much sense for a couple with 200k joint income and 2 youngish kids to have a net 4m wealth (without outside assistance).
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  #26  
Old 14.09.2023, 21:33
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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Although this breaks the formal rules for metric prefixes.
Not a prefix.
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  #27  
Old 14.09.2023, 22:29
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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If you earn over a certain amount (varies by pension fund - I think mine is around CHF 126k) there is often the opportunity to invest in the so called 1e, where there is a lot more freedom to invest in riskier assets.

thanks, I had no idea. Anyone knows what's the threshold at AXA Professional Invest? I'm going to ask them anyway, as my money is under performing then, all put in the standard basket
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  #28  
Old 15.09.2023, 10:38
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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I thought that after I’d written it, but as noted below it’s absolutely not standard. Also doesn’t make much sense for a couple with 200k joint income and 2 youngish kids to have a net 4m wealth (without outside assistance).
The kk is not a prefix, there's no unit. And good luck with getting kCHF and MCHF understood.

As for the rest, you apparently know the length of a piece of string.
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  #29  
Old 15.09.2023, 11:06
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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The kk is not a prefix, there's no unit. And good luck with getting kCHF and MCHF understood.

As for the rest, you apparently know the length of a piece of string.
Er, I see those every day at work.

As for the rest, don’t be such a tosser. The situation you described is clearly not typical.
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  #30  
Old 15.09.2023, 12:03
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

Always thought throwing “k’s” around in private a bit pretentious – type three “0’s” and save yourself from silly exchanges like above
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  #31  
Old 17.09.2023, 21:23
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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Er, I see those every day at work.

As for the rest, don’t be such a tosser. The situation you described is clearly not typical.
You maybe, but you're job appears to be a bit unusual in that regard.

Who says it's supposed to be typical? The point is a scenario that makes 35% tax plausible, and you don't highlight the core aspect by making the wealth tax a lousy 10% of the bill.
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  #32  
Old 17.09.2023, 21:40
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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Er, I see those every day at work.
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You maybe, but you're job appears to be a bit unusual in that regard.
Work in Corporate Finance, k is a thousand, m a million. Not unusual.
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  #33  
Old 18.09.2023, 09:34
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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Work in Corporate Finance, k is a thousand, m a million. Not unusual.
unfortunately, some also use M to mean 1000 and MM to mean 1 million.

in this regard I found "kk" to be less ambiguous even though i'd never seen it before, but i understood the meaning clearly from the context.

in china you also have 萬 and india lakh and crore (plus the annoying digit grouping).
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  #34  
Old 18.09.2023, 10:13
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

kk doesn't really scale well past a million, but I guess there's not many billionaires on EF.
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  #35  
Old 18.09.2023, 16:55
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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You maybe, but you're job appears to be a bit unusual in that regard.

Who says it's supposed to be typical? The point is a scenario that makes 35% tax plausible, and you don't highlight the core aspect by making the wealth tax a lousy 10% of the bill.
Really? Wealth management in Switzerland? I’ll have to tell the guys who built the MIS for one of the largest wealth managers in the world that you think they’re unusual. Likewise the whole finance department.
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  #36  
Old 18.09.2023, 16:57
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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unfortunately, some also use M to mean 1000 and MM to mean 1 million.
Normally I’ve seen that with American banks or people who have previously worked for one. Very odd for Americans to use non-standardised units.
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  #37  
Old 18.09.2023, 19:40
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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Really? Wealth management in Switzerland? I’ll have to tell the guys who built the MIS for one of the largest wealth managers in the world that you think they’re unusual. Likewise the whole finance department.
Actually you should write a book about it.
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  #38  
Old 18.09.2023, 20:10
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Re: Tax calculation - What am I doing wrong

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kk doesn't really scale well past a million, but I guess there's not many billionaires on EF.
Actually if you think about it the scaling is OK - each k replaces three 0 (and maybe a separator), so you save two (or three) characters per increment.

I still think it's odd though... and the representation of a billion is particularly unfortunate in a US context.
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