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-   -   Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes? (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/33519-trading-us-stocks-while-switzerland-owe-switzerland-taxes.html)

Shlarin 02.10.2008 00:59

Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
I opened a brokerage account in the US and started trading with it way before I arrived in Switzerland. Now I'm temporarily living in Switzerland for school and I continue to access this brokerage account via the Internet. If I make profits with the trades I execute while physically in Switzerland, will I owe taxes to the Swiss gov't? (Not easy making profits in today's market but let's say I get lucky..)

satya.raina 07.10.2008 13:56

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Where do the profits get accumulated. Meaning which acount do they get accumulated in? If not in a swiss account I doubt your paying taxes here.

Anyone with better knowledge on the subject could correct me if I am wrong.

almond 09.07.2009 01:00

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
In Switz there are no taxes on capital gains. No one pays taxes on trading, and you're obviously allowed to manage your private finances while in Switz. If you have a work permit, you can try and register as a professional trader, then you will have to pay taxes but you'll also be eligible for tax rebates on your work-related expenses (transaction fees etc.).

Furthermore, I suppose your dividends are already taxed as regular income in the States, so by the US-CH fiscal treaties you're not taxed on that in Switz either.

Goldtop 10.07.2009 15:27

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by almond (Post 491722)
In Switz there are no taxes on capital gains. No one pays taxes on trading, and you're obviously allowed to manage your private finances while in Switz. If you have a work permit, you can try and register as a professional trader, then you will have to pay taxes but you'll also be eligible for tax rebates on your work-related expenses (transaction fees etc.).

Furthermore, I suppose your dividends are already taxed as regular income in the States, so by the US-CH fiscal treaties you're not taxed on that in Switz either.

Swiss residents must declare foreign assets and foreign dividends. These are relevant in calculating Swiss taxes. Any taxes paid elsewhere can be subsequently offset according to the clauses of the pertinent tax treaty.

bill_door 10.07.2009 15:36

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldtop (Post 492715)
Any taxes paid elsewhere can be subsequently offset according to the clauses of the pertinent tax treaty.

hi Goldtop,

any idea how one goes about this? if i had a US broker I would probably send them a W8-BEN but I am in fact with postfinance/BCV based in CH and so far the people I have talked to have never heard of such a form! i'm trying to recover 15% of my dividends: the BCV keep 30% on US stocks and then in the tax return for ZRH I get 15% back. but how does one get the remaining 15%?

any help appreciated. bill.

Goldtop 10.07.2009 17:17

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bill_door (Post 492731)
hi Goldtop,

any idea how one goes about this? if i had a US broker I would probably send them a W8-BEN but I am in fact with postfinance/BCV based in CH and so far the people I have talked to have never heard of such a form! i'm trying to recover 15% of my dividends: the BCV keep 30% on US stocks and then in the tax return for ZRH I get 15% back. but how does one get the remaining 15%?

any help appreciated. bill.

Wish I could help you. I do not own US stocks. I am a CH citizen resident in CH and ignorant of US tax rules.

almond 10.07.2009 22:08

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Only the first 15% are redeemable (unlike the Swiss withholding tax, which is redeemable in full). I think the remaining 15% counts as a tax credit in Switz (but only if you actually have a positive charge on your tax bill).

ghasemkheili 05.11.2015 13:03

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
hello..I am from Switzerland..I reside in lausanne..I opened a trading account in an U.S. stock brokerage and I am trading in U.S. market..I wanted to know should I pay any taxes to my profits from U.S. stock market?...since the capital gains are tax-free in Switzerland,I wanted to know how much money can I make in a month without paying any tax?...I also have a full time job,and trading is not my only source of income..
If my question is not your field of specialization,please tell me where should I ask my question..

thank you a lot

Mullhollander 05.11.2015 13:21

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ghasemkheili (Post 2479794)
hello..I am from Switzerland..I reside in lausanne..I opened a trading account in an U.S. stock brokerage and I am trading in U.S. market..I wanted to know should I pay any taxes to my profits from U.S. stock market?...since the capital gains are tax-free in Switzerland,I wanted to know how much money can I make in a month without paying any tax?...I also have a full time job,and trading is not my only source of income..
If my question is not your field of specialization,please tell me where should I ask my question..

thank you a lot

This VZ Vermögenszentrum article explains when stock trading is considered to be an occupation resulting in the taxation of capital gains:

https://translate.google.ch/translat...tml&edit-text=

ghasemkheili 05.11.2015 16:55

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mullhollander (Post 2479804)
This VZ Vermögenszentrum article explains when stock trading is considered to be an occupation resulting in the taxation of capital gains:

https://translate.google.ch/translat...tml&edit-text=



thank you..It was helpful..I have another question..does ((wash sale)) tax rules exist in Switzerland?I trade just one option contract every day..I wanted to know can I offset my losses without any problem?
because under wash sale rule's conditions I will face problem..

alemap 05.11.2015 17:16

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
I don't know the intricacies, but as "almond" states, there aren't capital gains taxes (I have read that they don't apply to liquid assets, so things shares and currency trades... but there is CG tax on real estate property)

But dividend income is taxable, as are worldwide assets, cash and value of share holdings as at 31.12 each year, as stated above.

Mullhollander 05.11.2015 17:22

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ghasemkheili (Post 2479955)
thank you..It was helpful..I have another question..does ((wash sale)) tax rules exist in Switzerland?I trade just one option contract every day..I wanted to know can I offset my losses without any problem?
because under wash sale rule's conditions I will face problem..

Let's think about what you are asking. There are no capital gains or losses for tax purposes on financial assets in Switzerland unless the tax authorities determine that you are trading commercially. Therefore, if you have a capital loss as a private person, it is not reported as a loss on your tax return and it cannot be used to offset your losses.

If this is really important to you, suggest you consult with a tax adviser. I would hesitate to take tax advice from a message board. Taxes are complicated.

ghasemkheili 05.11.2015 17:27

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mullhollander (Post 2479970)
Let's think about what you are asking. There are no capital gains or losses for tax purposes on financial assets in Switzerland unless the tax authorities determine that you are trading commercially. Therefore, if you have a capital loss as a private person, it is not reported as a loss on your tax return and it cannot be used to offset your losses.

If this is really important to you, suggest you consult with a tax adviser. I would hesitate to take tax advice from a message board. Taxes are complicated.


thank you so much for your time...can you introduce me a good tax advisor in switzerland(vaud canton) to ask my questions?

fatmanfilms 05.11.2015 17:57

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ghasemkheili (Post 2479975)
thank you so much for your time...can you introduce me a good tax advisor in switzerland(vaud canton) to ask my questions?

Unless the tax authorities believe your a professional trader then there are no taxes to pay. You only need to show holdings at 31 December, not trades or profits.

Mullhollander 05.11.2015 18:19

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ghasemkheili (Post 2479975)
thank you so much for your time...can you introduce me a good tax advisor in switzerland(vaud canton) to ask my questions?

http://tel.search.ch/?was=fiduciaire&wo=vaud&pages=3

Confloozed 06.11.2015 01:49

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
To answer the OP, as of today, if this person was an American citizen it is illegal. I know based on personal experience.

For a Swiss to trade US stocks the best way to do it is to trade them on the DAX or other EU exchanges. If you make dividends in the US, they are going to want to tax you on them, and the managing around that might outweigh the value brought by dividends.

The brokers have to report everything each financial quarter. If you are registered here, they will report it. Rules have changed...might want to look into Dodd Frank for tips.

fatmanfilms 07.11.2015 18:23

Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confloozed (Post 2480243)
To answer the OP, as of today, if this person was an American citizen it is illegal. I know based on personal experience.

For a Swiss to trade US stocks the best way to do it is to trade them on the DAX or other EU exchanges. If you make dividends in the US, they are going to want to tax you on them, and the managing around that might outweigh the value brought by dividends.

The brokers have to report everything each financial quarter. If you are registered here, they will report it. Rules have changed...might want to look into Dodd Frank for tips.


US citizens can trade US securities, the just need to fill in a W9 form.

I prefer to trade US stocks on the US markets, only a small selectors are traded on the DAX priced in Euros. Far from ideal, fees are higher as well

I even trade some UK & Swill stocks as ADR's in the US, zero stamp duty is 1 advantage

Confloozed 07.11.2015 18:26

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2481003)
US citizens can trade US securities, the just need to fill in a W9 form.

I prefer to trade US stocks on the US markets, only a small selectors are traded on the DAX priced in Euros. Far from ideal, fees are higher as well

I was forced to sell all my securities a few years ago, as I was told by my bank it was illegal. I contacted the broker thru the bank they used and, while I cant remember all the details he gave me a long conversation how this was true. The bank quite a bit of my holdings at the time, but it was a big hassle as I had to transfer them from my brokerage account in Switzerland to the states.

fatmanfilms 07.11.2015 18:30

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confloozed (Post 2481004)
I was forced to sell all my securities a few years ago, as I was told by my bank it was illegal. I contacted the broker thru the bank they used and, while I cant remember all the details he gave me a long conversation how this was true. The bank quite a bit of my holdings at the time, but it was a big hassle as I had to transfer them from my brokerage account in Switzerland to the states.


Nothing illegal just your bank no longer wanted to act for you.

You will notice Swiss people often claim things to be illegal, several forum members come to mind

Confloozed 07.11.2015 18:37

Re: Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2481005)
Nothing illegal just your bank no longer wanted to act for you.

You will notice Swiss people often claim things to be illegal, several forum members come to mind

Well I certainly hope what you are telling me isn't true. I lost a decent amount of money on that one.


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