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Old 14.10.2008, 17:15
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120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

Hi !

Just wanted to have a confirmation : in the cantons of ZH, ZG, or SZ, if you earn more than 120K gross - 13th month included - as a B-permit holder, then living in a specific Gemeinde within the canton does change your tax rate ?

The guy at Mata Diensten told me the opposite yesterday, saying that only C-permit holders paid a tax rate dependent on Gemeinde, canton, and federation, and B-permit holders would pay the average cantonal tax.

Thanks for your confirmation !
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Old 14.10.2008, 17:39
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

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Hi !

Just wanted to have a confirmation : in the cantons of ZH, ZG, or SZ, if you earn more than 120K gross - 13th month included - as a B-permit holder, then living in a specific Gemeinde within the canton does change your tax rate ?

The guy at Mata Diensten told me the opposite yesterday, saying that only C-permit holders paid a tax rate dependent on Gemeinde, canton, and federation, and B-permit holders would pay the average cantonal tax.

Thanks for your confirmation !
er... kind of.

With a B you pay Quellensteur or source tax which is the average.
Say you pay 25K for now

If you earn more than 120k, you are invited to fill in a tax return and your tax due is calculated as per a Swiss national or C permit holder (Gemeinde/Kanton etc)

This says you owe 23k... lucky you: 2k refund + interest
This says you owe 27k... bummer: 2k bill

So: pick your Gemeinde carefully if you plan on earning more than 120k
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Old 14.10.2008, 17:41
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

ok so if I understand correctly, even if you do not earn 10 000 a month, but bonuses and 13th month bring you over 120K, then you fill the tax return and then the gemeinde has a direct consequence (except in GE where the limit is 500K), right ?

thx !
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Old 14.10.2008, 17:43
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

"invited".... giggle, giggle.

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If you earn more than 120k, you are invited to fill in a tax return
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Old 14.10.2008, 18:01
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

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"invited".... giggle, giggle.
More like forced.

I am sure the limit was CHF 140k not CHF 120k. I will dig up the letter.
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Old 14.10.2008, 18:02
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

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"invited".... giggle, giggle.
Kloten is very civilised y'know...

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ok so if I understand correctly, even if you do not earn 10 000 a month, but bonuses and 13th month bring you over 120K, then you fill the tax return and then the gemeinde has a direct consequence (except in GE where the limit is 500K), right ?

thx !
13th month is salary so that counts. 13 x 9800 will do it.

Bonus... er, not sure exactly
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Old 14.10.2008, 18:02
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

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More like forced.

I am sure the limit was CHF 140k not CHF 120k. I will dig up the letter.
Nope, 120k in canton Zurich.
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Old 14.10.2008, 18:03
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

I thought the limit for the "invite to file a tax return" was CHF 130K?



And according to our HR, the tax at the source deducted by your employer (Quellensteuer) is dependent on which commune (Gemeinde) you live in ...
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Old 14.10.2008, 18:23
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

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I thought the limit for the "invite to file a tax return" was CHF 130K?



And according to our HR, the tax at the source deducted by your employer (Quellensteuer) is dependent on which commune (Gemeinde) you live in ...
It isn't an invitation. We got a letter saying that by law B-Permit holders earning over CHF 140k must submit a tax declaration. The tax declaration followed soon after.

For Zug, Quellensteuer isn't based on Geminde. On www.zug.ch they have a table of monthy salary and the corresponding rates for single, double earners, 1 and 2 children. Unfortunately I can't open all the PDFs to compare the rates between with and without C permit.
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Old 14.10.2008, 18:26
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

From my experience, you are not always "invited" or even required. At least in AG I had to request to switch to standard taxation after I did the calculations and realised it would be beneficial
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Old 14.10.2008, 18:26
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

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I thought the limit for the "invite to file a tax return" was CHF 130K?



And according to our HR, the tax at the source deducted by your employer (Quellensteuer) is dependent on which commune (Gemeinde) you live in ...
120K
If any of the doubter earns 125K and doesn't believe me, well...

No: there is one set of tables for the entire canton. Ask payroll, not HR.
Zurich are here
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Old 14.10.2008, 18:27
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

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It isn't an invitation. We got a letter saying that by law B-Permit holders earning over CHF 140k must submit a tax declaration. The tax declaration followed soon after.
It's 120K in Zurich then
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Old 14.10.2008, 18:30
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

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120K
If any of the doubter earns 125K and doesn't believe me, well...

No: there is one set of tables for the entire canton. Ask payroll, not HR.
Zurich are here
Funny ... payroll is part of HR, and that's what they told me. Guess they were wrong, as they have been several times before.

Gawd ,,,,,,,

Well, I guess when I finally get around to filing my 2007 taxes I might get some money back (since I've been paying Kanton average then but live in tax-low commune Maur).

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Old 14.10.2008, 18:30
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

OK 120K in Zürich then, this is what I read as well.
Unsure if any bonus paid once a year counts ? I would think so but a confirmation would be appreciated.

Is the limit 120K in cantons ZG and SZ as well ?

Thx again !
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Old 14.10.2008, 18:35
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

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Funny ... payroll is part of HR, and that's what they told me. Guess they were wrong, as they have been several times before.

Gawd ,,,,,,,

Well, I guess when I finally get around to filing my 2007 taxes I might get some money back (since I've been paying Kanton average then but live in tax-low commune Maur).

I've always had a refund even in modest (and polite, civilised, "inviting") Kloten
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Old 14.10.2008, 20:56
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

Yes, they were wrong. They may have been confused by the fact that it is your Gemeinde that issues the official statement to the employer over which rate (A1, B1 etc) you should be charged. But the rate will be the same independent of where you live in the Canton.

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Guess they were wrong, as they have been several times before.
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Old 14.10.2008, 21:04
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

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Yes, they were wrong. They may have been confused by the fact that it is your Gemeinde that issues the official statement to the employer over which rate (A1, B1 etc) you should be charged. But the rate will be the same independent of where you live in the Canton.
Why does that not surprise me. Sometimes they lie openly. Sometimes they are just plain stupid. Sigh.

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Old 14.10.2008, 21:37
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

I think different situations are getting confused. As my accountant explained it to me (I have a B permit), if your taxes are such that you have Quellensteur deducted at source, then they will consist of the standard federal percentage for the salary, the standard cantonal rate for the salary and the _average_ geminde rate for the canton.

Then when you file a tax return, you apply the actual tax rate for the geminde you live in and pay more, less or the same depending on whether you live in a expensive, cheap or average geminde.

I was told that was why the millionaires try to live in Oberaegeri in Zug canton as it has the lowest taxes (it didn't seem to have much else to commend it to me). Mind you that was by a local taxi driver so I wouldn't take it as gospel! There should be a table on the Zug canton website listing the different rates for the different gemindes.
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Old 14.10.2008, 21:49
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

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... So: pick your Gemeinde carefully if you plan on earning more than 120k
Rentals and realty prices are higher in low-tax-rate communes. So bottom line is not much different unless you have very high or very low income.

Zurich City is an exception: High costs and high taxes.
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Old 15.10.2008, 15:25
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Re: 120K limit in ZH, SZ, ZG

Taxed at source - yes, that's logical if B-permit holder.
But was the tax rate dependent on your Gemeinde ?
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