Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #281  
Old 01.07.2010, 14:09
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Saint-Louis, Haut-Rhin, France
Posts: 62
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 14 Times in 9 Posts
rich68 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

CHF continues to batter the Euro. Now at: 1.31834

Back on topic, the swiss franc is also working its magic on the pound as well - now at 1.60246

http://www.xe.com/currency/chf-swiss-franc
Reply With Quote
  #282  
Old 01.07.2010, 14:52
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,555
Groaned at 50 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
CHF continues to batter the Euro. Now at: 1.31834

Back on topic, the swiss franc is also working its magic on the pound as well - now at 1.60246

http://www.xe.com/currency/chf-swiss-franc
Now at under 1.60!

This is partly CHF strength, but I guess fears about a double-dip recession and also the possible effect of 600,000 public sector job losses in the UK too.
Reply With Quote
  #283  
Old 02.07.2010, 12:33
HTD's Avatar
HTD HTD is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zollikerberg
Posts: 793
Groaned at 26 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 595 Times in 317 Posts
HTD has a reputation beyond reputeHTD has a reputation beyond reputeHTD has a reputation beyond reputeHTD has a reputation beyond reputeHTD has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
I think the SNB decided to stop keeping the chuff at it previous levels - it was costing them too much.
see this for some Swiss pain
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank HTD for this useful post:
  #284  
Old 02.07.2010, 15:23
Swissmountainair's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: A moving target...
Posts: 879
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 950 Times in 448 Posts
Swissmountainair has a reputation beyond reputeSwissmountainair has a reputation beyond reputeSwissmountainair has a reputation beyond reputeSwissmountainair has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
see this for some Swiss pain
Good article. Goes to show the Euro has been a very costly, economically flawed, political exercise to the detriment of countries beyond as well as within the immediate Euro-zone.

I reckon this is just another example that will be used by certain parties to argue for a single global currency. The first step to which is already being discussed http://www.businessinsider.com/un-re...urrency-2010-6
Reply With Quote
  #285  
Old 02.07.2010, 16:01
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,555
Groaned at 50 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
Good article. Goes to show the Euro has been a very costly, economically flawed, political exercise to the detriment of countries beyond as well as within the immediate Euro-zone.

I reckon this is just another example that will be used by certain parties to argue for a single global currency. The first step to which is already being discussed http://www.businessinsider.com/un-re...urrency-2010-6
Surely the opposite argument holds: that attempts to bind diverse economies with a single currency will have difficulty withstanding market strains. A more likely response to the Euro's collapse would be the resurrection of the Mark, not the creation of the Global Currency Unit.
Reply With Quote
  #286  
Old 02.07.2010, 16:19
Swissmountainair's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: A moving target...
Posts: 879
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 950 Times in 448 Posts
Swissmountainair has a reputation beyond reputeSwissmountainair has a reputation beyond reputeSwissmountainair has a reputation beyond reputeSwissmountainair has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
Surely the opposite argument holds: that attempts to bind diverse economies with a single currency will have difficulty withstanding market strains. A more likely response to the Euro's collapse would be the resurrection of the Mark, not the creation of the Global Currency Unit.
Economically I absolutely agree with you. The political reality may well be rather different - and I expect those in favour of a global will push a (flawed) argument that it would be better for all concerned to avoid the uncertainty and expense of exchange costs.

In other words I expect them to argue that the Euro is flawed and the Dollar is unsuitable as a reserve currency precisely because of the existence of other currencies. The same argument that sold the public on the introduction of the Euro in the first place (not that many were given the opportunity to vote on Euro adoption) - just on a larger scale. I don't like it but I can well see it happening. Not wanting to sound too conspiratorial but the trend amongst those in power has been towards bringing everything under increasing global government supervision in the name of fighting corruption, terrorism, tax evasion, blah blah blah.
__________________
Expat In Switzerland website and FREE monthly e-newsletter containing articles on life in Switzerland & what's on events guide
Reply With Quote
  #287  
Old 02.07.2010, 21:33
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,314
Groaned at 389 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 16,264 Times in 8,821 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
see this for some Swiss pain
Good article - except for the estimate of an SNB paper loss of a couple of billion at the end of 2nd quarter is, I believe, a gross underestimate.
Reply With Quote
  #288  
Old 09.07.2010, 13:02
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,314
Groaned at 389 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 16,264 Times in 8,821 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
Good article - except for the estimate of an SNB paper loss of a couple of billion at the end of 2nd quarter is, I believe, a gross underestimate.
As I said - support from today's FT " The Swiss National Bank may have suffered paper losses of up to SFr10bn (€7.5bn) from huge interventions in the currency markets to restrain the value of the franc."

I wonder who pays for this loss? Or does it not have to be covered? This is an area I am really foggy on; about who is responsible for what debt when central banks print money? Maybe it does not matter & is all only on paper?
Reply With Quote
  #289  
Old 09.07.2010, 14:58
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,727
Groaned at 326 Times in 220 Posts
Thanked 10,650 Times in 3,715 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
As I said - support from today's FT " The Swiss National Bank may have suffered paper losses of up to SFr10bn (€7.5bn) from huge interventions in the currency markets to restrain the value of the franc."

I wonder who pays for this loss? Or does it not have to be covered? This is an area I am really foggy on; about who is responsible for what debt when central banks print money? Maybe it does not matter & is all only on paper?
Nobody pays for paper losses. Give it a year and it'll be a paper profit...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #290  
Old 09.07.2010, 15:20
eyebeebe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pfäffikon SZ
Posts: 1,733
Groaned at 16 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 891 Posts
eyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
Nobody pays for paper losses. Give it a year and it'll be a paper profit...
I'm not sure what the weighted average price is for all the Euros that the SNB have bought is, but let's for arguments sake say it is 1.45 EUR/CHF. What factors do you see strengthening the Euro or weakening the Swissie to bring the rate back above that level?
Reply With Quote
  #291  
Old 27.07.2010, 11:55
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 13,756
Groaned at 270 Times in 176 Posts
Thanked 16,778 Times in 7,115 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
As I said - support from today's FT " The Swiss National Bank may have suffered paper losses of up to SFr10bn (€7.5bn) from huge interventions in the currency markets to restrain the value of the franc."

I wonder who pays for this loss? Or does it not have to be covered? This is an area I am really foggy on; about who is responsible for what debt when central banks print money? Maybe it does not matter & is all only on paper?
all existing CHF holders pay. imo, the SNB have made a massive mistake by basically transferring a huge amount of wealth from the swiss and giving it to the Euro holders.
Reply With Quote
  #292  
Old 27.07.2010, 12:10
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,727
Groaned at 326 Times in 220 Posts
Thanked 10,650 Times in 3,715 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
I'm not sure what the weighted average price is for all the Euros that the SNB have bought is, but let's for arguments sake say it is 1.45 EUR/CHF. What factors do you see strengthening the Euro or weakening the Swissie to bring the rate back above that level?
Two factors:

- The 10-year trend indicates an upswing will follow such a fall. ie the euro zone now has only only one way to go, up.
(http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eu...ph-chf.en.html)

- the rise of the CHF will be self-defeating and bring its value down again...
Reply With Quote
  #293  
Old 27.07.2010, 12:44
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,169
Groaned at 171 Times in 154 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
Nobody pays for paper losses. Give it a year and it'll be a paper profit...
I'm not an economist and this is standard "banking talk" that I've never fully understood.

Yes, there is no loss if you don't sell, and assuming the exchange rate sorts itself out then there could be a profit. But that doesn't mean it was a smart purchase. In fact, it implies nothing at all.

Say I invest in applies. Ignore the fact they go rotten

I bought two applies last year for 10 CHF.

Now, they are worth 2.5 each. So I've made a "paper" loss of 5 CHF.

In a year's time they are worth 10 CHF each and I sell them for 20 CHF, a 10 CHF profit.

People then say that it was a good move, because look at that profit! And it was only a paper loss.

However, if I didn't buy them last year and bought them now, I would pay 5 CHF, and sell for 20 CHF, making a profit of 15 CHF. So "paper" loss or not, it's still a loss.
Reply With Quote
  #294  
Old 27.07.2010, 12:49
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,555
Groaned at 50 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
I'm not an economist and this is standard "banking talk" that I've never fully understood.

Yes, there is no loss if you don't sell, and assuming the exchange rate sorts itself out then there could be a profit. But that doesn't mean it was a smart purchase. In fact, it implies nothing at all.

Say I invest in applies. Ignore the fact they go rotten

I bought two applies last year for 10 CHF.

Now, they are worth 2.5 each. So I've made a "paper" loss of 5 CHF.

In a year's time they are worth 10 CHF each and I sell them for 20 CHF, a 10 CHF profit.

People then say that it was a good move, because look at that profit! And it was only a paper loss.

However, if I didn't buy them last year and bought them now, I would pay 5 CHF, and sell for 20 CHF, making a profit of 15 CHF. So "paper" loss or not, it's still a loss.
I think you're providing your own, slightly idiosyncratic, definition of loss.
Reply With Quote
  #295  
Old 27.07.2010, 12:55
porsch1909
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
I'm not an economist and this is standard "banking talk" that I've never fully understood.

Yes, there is no loss if you don't sell, and assuming the exchange rate sorts itself out then there could be a profit. But that doesn't mean it was a smart purchase. In fact, it implies nothing at all.

Say I invest in applies. Ignore the fact they go rotten

I bought two applies last year for 10 CHF.

Now, they are worth 2.5 each. So I've made a "paper" loss of 5 CHF.

In a year's time they are worth 10 CHF each and I sell them for 20 CHF, a 10 CHF profit.

People then say that it was a good move, because look at that profit! And it was only a paper loss.

However, if I didn't buy them last year and bought them now, I would pay 5 CHF, and sell for 20 CHF, making a profit of 15 CHF. So "paper" loss or not, it's still a loss.
Why would people buy your Apple for 20CHF if they could buy it themselves for 5CHF?
Reply With Quote
  #296  
Old 27.07.2010, 13:01
pk01's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Geneve
Posts: 339
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 132 Times in 81 Posts
pk01 is considered knowledgeablepk01 is considered knowledgeablepk01 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

i am not an expert, National Banks do not worry about profit/loss they just try to maintain currency at a certain range which they feel is beneficial. What is the techinical term for printing money, aha its quantitative easing... so this loss is nothing
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank pk01 for this useful post:
  #297  
Old 27.07.2010, 13:03
Nev
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
i am not an expert, National Banks do not worry about profit/loss they just try to maintain currency
Exactly. And as the media has pointed out, FX losses will be mitigated by gains on it's gold reserves.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #298  
Old 27.07.2010, 13:19
pk01's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Geneve
Posts: 339
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 132 Times in 81 Posts
pk01 is considered knowledgeablepk01 is considered knowledgeablepk01 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

yup, they have paper profits of about 8-9 billion USD on gold reserves due to favorable currency movements

Quote:
View Post
Exactly. And as the media has pointed out, FX losses will be mitigated by gains on it's gold reserves.
Reply With Quote
  #299  
Old 27.07.2010, 22:13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zug
Posts: 268
Groaned at 35 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 139 Times in 82 Posts
mike_n has made some interesting contributions
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Quote:
View Post
i am not an expert, National Banks do not worry about profit/loss they just try to maintain currency at a certain range which they feel is beneficial. What is the techinical term for printing money, aha its quantitative easing... so this loss is nothing
They should worry about the loss, because someone booked a profit. A few not worthy to mention billions. Or maybe SNB lives in an ideal world, some make profits and no one loses.

I found an interesting article:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/214564-smackdown-at-the-swiss-national-bank
Reply With Quote
  #300  
Old 27.07.2010, 22:39
Nev
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Gbp/chf..wow 1.76

Fair point in the article. Nobody is saying the SNB didn't screw up. But it's not that they have paper losses.....in the world of central bank intervention that can be excused. It's that they lost money when they should've stepped out of the ring and wound up with nothing to show for it. Peeing against the wind! (see previous post).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
currency exchange




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Declaring foreign income: which exchange rate? MountBerg Finance/banking/taxation 12 17.12.2014 05:52
Exchange to CHF Atomic Finance/banking/taxation 3 10.05.2010 10:41
Exchange rate CHF / EUR MatteoColombo Finance/banking/taxation 0 26.03.2010 22:02
what is more economical to exchange chf to pound delu Other/general 1 17.02.2010 15:47
Exchange rates to CHF TAE Finance/banking/taxation 10 23.09.2009 09:12


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0