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Old 24.10.2008, 17:34
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UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

Just wondering if anyone knows the answer to this:

I am a Swiss B-permit resident, and will be non-resident in the UK for tax purposes. However, I have a flat in the UK, so am still going to be filling in a UK self assessment tax return form.

My question is, if I buy shares in a UK company, will I pay UK tax on the dividends / any capital gains, and does it make any difference if I buy the shares through a UK broker or a Swiss broker?

According to HMRC's website, non-residents would only pay UK tax on income arising in the UK, but I am not clear if there is a way of removing UK company share-holdings from the UK, eg by holding the share certificates in Switzerland?

Cheers,
GenevaSculler
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Old 25.10.2008, 19:14
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Re: UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

No matter how you buy the shares, all dividends are taxable in Switzerland. Also liable to wealth tax in Switzerland. Most probably exempt from capital-gains here.
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Old 27.10.2008, 14:15
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Re: UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

I guess the question then is, any idea how I can avoid also paying tax in the UK on them?! Should I just not include on my UK tax return, or do I have to claim double tax relief?
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Old 30.10.2008, 09:00
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Re: UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

Hi All,

Just thought I'd bump this up, because I have a similar query.

I am a UK national, not resident in UK for tax purposes as I live in Switzerland. I'm considering buying some shares in the US markets and have a couple of options to do this.

One is an internet based company based in the UK, who say that they will open a share trading account and an ISA (not sure why??) when you join them. To fund this account I will probably link it to a UK bank account I have, thus no link to Switzerland whatsoever. Does anybody know what the implications of this are from UK tax? i.e. when you use these internet based share sites do they remove the capital gains etc at source when you withdraw your funds? Or are you required to submit a tax return? I would rather not have to do this if possible.

The other option is to do it within Switzerland, using UBS/CS etc. I know that they are quite expensive, however it may remove any UK tax issues, which is an advantage.

Can anyone offer any advice?
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Old 30.10.2008, 09:17
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Re: UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

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Hi All,

Just thought I'd bump this up, because I have a similar query.

I am a UK national, not resident in UK for tax purposes as I live in Switzerland. I'm considering buying some shares in the US markets and have a couple of options to do this.

One is an internet based company based in the UK, who say that they will open a share trading account and an ISA (not sure why??) when you join them. To fund this account I will probably link it to a UK bank account I have, thus no link to Switzerland whatsoever. Does anybody know what the implications of this are from UK tax? i.e. when you use these internet based share sites do they remove the capital gains etc at source when you withdraw your funds? Or are you required to submit a tax return? I would rather not have to do this if possible.

The other option is to do it within Switzerland, using UBS/CS etc. I know that they are quite expensive, however it may remove any UK tax issues, which is an advantage.

Can anyone offer any advice?
My current plan is to use SwissQuote to do the trading which was recommended by a colleague at my work:

SwissQuote

Still no idea about the UK tax implications though...
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Old 30.10.2008, 12:37
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Re: UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

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My current plan is to use SwissQuote to do the trading which was recommended by a colleague at my work:

SwissQuote

Still no idea about the UK tax implications though...
Is anyone using CS or UBS? What are their transaction costs? I can't seem to find anything on either websites - they seem pretty keen on selling their "funds", but what about buying your own choice of shares?
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Old 30.10.2008, 12:48
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Re: UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

Non-resident in the UK for tax purposes means exactly that. Why on earth are you filling in UK tax returns? Your income from the rent of the flat in the UK is taxable by the Swiss authorities (if you choose to disclose it), (and incidentally, you should be receiving your rent gross, you need to get a letter from the tax man to your property managers).
I got a tax accountant to get the Inland Revenue to agree that my tax account balance was GBP 0.0, and that until I was once again resident in the UK, I would not have to submit a tax return.

The same presumably applies to share dividends and capital gains tax.

Cheers

Jim

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Just wondering if anyone knows the answer to this:

I am a Swiss B-permit resident, and will be non-resident in the UK for tax purposes. However, I have a flat in the UK, so am still going to be filling in a UK self assessment tax return form.

My question is, if I buy shares in a UK company, will I pay UK tax on the dividends / any capital gains, and does it make any difference if I buy the shares through a UK broker or a Swiss broker?

According to HMRC's website, non-residents would only pay UK tax on income arising in the UK, but I am not clear if there is a way of removing UK company share-holdings from the UK, eg by holding the share certificates in Switzerland?

Cheers,
GenevaSculler
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Old 30.10.2008, 12:59
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Re: UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

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One is an internet based company based in the UK, who say that they will open a share trading account and an ISA (not sure why??) when you join them.
An ISA is for UK Tax Residents only. When I left the UK, I could keep the ISAs I had but could not pay any more into them or open any new ones.

I have just received a copy of my tax return from my accountant and my UK share dividend income was set against my personal tax allowence.
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Old 30.10.2008, 13:27
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Re: UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

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Non-resident in the UK for tax purposes means exactly that. Why on earth are you filling in UK tax returns? Your income from the rent of the flat in the UK is taxable by the Swiss authorities (if you choose to disclose it), (and incidentally, you should be receiving your rent gross, you need to get a letter from the tax man to your property managers).
I got a tax accountant to get the Inland Revenue to agree that my tax account balance was GBP 0.0, and that until I was once again resident in the UK, I would not have to submit a tax return.

The same presumably applies to share dividends and capital gains tax.

Cheers

Jim
Jim this statement is not as I had understood the situation.. I thought if your flat income was generated in the UK then it was taxable in the UK. This is from the Non-Resident landlords documentation from the IR. Can you confirm that the IR completely agreed there was zero tax for you to pay on rental income derived within the UK and the taxation would be within Switzerland ?

Thanks

Mike
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Old 30.10.2008, 13:33
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Re: UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

This is the case. You are not resident in the UK for tax purposes. My letting agency withheld the tax on the income from the flat until I could prove I was non-resident for tax purposes, at which point they reimbursed it. It sounds to me that you could do with bunging a couple of quid in the direction of a tax accountant.

Don't try to deal with the Cardiff YTS crew yourself, it's a complete waste of time, they're not there to help, just to tell you to pay. Complete bunch of w*nkers.

Cheers

Jim

(You could even bung a thanks my way when you get your rebate...)

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Jim this statement is not as I had understood the situation.. I thought if your flat income was generated in the UK then it was taxable in the UK. This is from the Non-Resident landlords documentation from the IR. Can you confirm that the IR completely agreed there was zero tax for you to pay on rental income derived within the UK and the taxation would be within Switzerland ?

Thanks

Mike
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Old 04.11.2008, 12:11
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Re: UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

Jim,

Thanks for the replies. Was away for a long weekend, so apologies for taking so long to respond.

I have only just moved to Switzerland, so still sorting out everything. I have UK rental income, and also some dividends from UK shares, so was assuming that the income being earned in the UK would still be taxed there?

Non-resident means you aren't taxed on income earned overseas (ie outside the UK), but I thought they still tried to nobble you on UK-derived income?

Just got confirmation from the non-resident landlord scheme that I am ok to receive my rent gross on my old flat. However, I was imagining that I would need to declare it on my tax return for 08-09...

On a separate note, if I am being taxed at source here, how am I supposed to declare anything (rent/dividend etc)?

Cheers,
Nick
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Old 04.11.2008, 14:23
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Re: UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

Nick

Glad you are making progress.
I am not a tax accountant, therefore I cannot really take you much further but:

Keep saying to yourself, "I am a Swiss man for tax purposes. My name is Beat Meyer. As far as the Inland Revenue is concerned, I might as well not exist."

Things will slowly become clearer.

If you pay source tax directly from your monthly wage, this will usually satisfy the Swiss tax authorities. Not sure how many millions worth of shares you have but...
There are currently no agreements between the UK and Swiss tax / banking authorities to speak of.
Therefore I suggest you move your shares to a Swiss account.
Get your dividends paid to a Swiss account.

If having done all this you still feel a burning Ned Flanders style urge to declare your additional rental and shares income to the Swiss authorities, go down to the local Gehmeinde, and say:

"I'm a crazy Ausslander who wishes to pay more tax! Please give me a self assessment form."

Wear your undies on your head for the full effect.

They will be very happy to oblige.

Cheers

Jim
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Old 04.11.2008, 14:35
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Re: UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

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Nick

Glad you are making progress.
I am not a tax accountant, therefore I cannot really take you much further but:

Keep saying to yourself, "I am a Swiss man for tax purposes. My name is Beat Meyer. As far as the Inland Revenue is concerned, I might as well not exist."

Things will slowly become clearer.

If you pay source tax directly from your monthly wage, this will usually satisfy the Swiss tax authorities. Not sure how many millions worth of shares you have but...
There are currently no agreements between the UK and Swiss tax / banking authorities to speak of.
Therefore I suggest you move your shares to a Swiss account.
Get your dividends paid to a Swiss account.

If having done all this you still feel a burning Ned Flanders style urge to declare your additional rental and shares income to the Swiss authorities, go down to the local Gehmeinde, and say:

"I'm a crazy Ausslander who wishes to pay more tax! Please give me a self assessment form."

Wear your undies on your head for the full effect.

They will be very happy to oblige.

Cheers

Jim
Damn it Jim, I'm at work - stop trying to make me laugh!!

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I can certainly get the dividends paid to my Swiss account. Now I just need to work out how to transfer the paper share certificates into a Swiss account...

Cheers,
Nick
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  #14  
Old 04.01.2009, 10:18
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Re: UK tax on UK shares for a Swiss resident?

On UK Rental income, you only need to declare to UK Authorities if you consider that you are making a taxable gain (they need to approve this approach). You need to make over £5k profit ish - don't know what the allowance is exactly. Of course, you can deduct the interest from your mortgage, wear and tear, agency fees, renovation costs etc to reduce liability. You can also carry forward any losses over subsequent years.

Whenever I think I'll make a profit, I invest in the housing assets (windows, roofing etc.) in that year.

Keep your life simple....
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