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  #261  
Old 23.02.2017, 15:08
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Hi all,

Thank you very much for this Thread, and apologies in advance if my response is not relevant to this - but fingers crossed it is!
I am a new employer in CH (2yrs) and wondering what happens to the money that PUBLICA keep automatically from my salary... if I were to leave the country soon(ish).

Any pointers most appreciated.

Thanks,
Ella
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  #262  
Old 23.02.2017, 15:29
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Hi all,

UK expat, left Switzerland in 2012 for France then the UK. Thought I wouldn't be returning so pension went into a Feeizügigkeitskonto, but I managed to take half of the money with me (because I was moving to France, I presume?) and I vaguely remember the words "so long as you don't come back" or words to that effect. My situation has now changed and I'm about to sign a new contract with my previous employer but worried CH won't let me return now! Anyone ever been in this situation or can advise? I'll pay the money back into my 2. Pillar if I have to
I left in 2011, transferred it all to Liberty (for lower tax), took some non-obligatory out.

Now I'm back and have to transfer the remaining Freizügigkeitskonto (obligatory) into my new employer's scheme.

It is that simple.

I'd imagine there are some rules if the gap was a year (or less or a bit more) to avoid piss taking with tax deducations etc
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  #263  
Old 04.03.2017, 10:39
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Hello everyone,

This thread is indeed excellent, thank you to everyone who has contributed. The topic seems very tricky to me - I do have a couple of questions though, which I hope haven't been covered (apologies if I have missed it, if so).

I'm going to be leaving switzerland in a few months and will transfer my 3rd pillar to a uk account. Currently the funds are in a Compte de libre passage with UBS in Geneva and I understand that I can save on tax by transferring it to a lower tax canton first. I read somewhere that Schwyz is the lowest tax canton but also Zug came into the mix...

Q: Is there a link to an official list anywhere which outlines ALL the tax rates for this exercise since I'd like to check this "fact" officially before moving anything


If I can compare the list and find a pensions company there, that would be a great start. Thank you !
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  #264  
Old 04.03.2017, 11:41
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Q: Is there a link to an official list anywhere which outlines ALL the tax rates for this exercise since I'd like to check this "fact" officially before moving anything
Not a list but a calculator:
https://www.postfinance.ch/de/priv/p...alc/cap3a.html

Geneva is , surprisingly and despite its otherwise high taxes, one of the lower tax cantons in this respect.
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  #265  
Old 04.03.2017, 15:36
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

What is relevant for the taxation (when non-resident) is the location of the pillar 3 foundation (trust), not which branch you contracted at. I believe for UBS that is Basel.
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  #266  
Old 04.03.2017, 17:22
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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What is relevant for the taxation (when non-resident) is the location of the pillar 3 foundation (trust), not which branch you contracted at. I believe for UBS that is Basel.
Nice, thank you - that's very helpful!
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  #267  
Old 04.03.2017, 18:39
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Thinking about this though ... all well to reduce the tax but if I need to leave my "obligatory" amount in Switzerland (which is not unsubstantial after 14 years here) and I move the whole fund to a small pension provider in the middle of Zug to save tax - does that not mean that I am therefore leaving my obligatory amount with a company that I know very little about ...

Anyone know if I would have the right to move the obligatory amount back to (e.g.) UBS so I know this is with a more stable organisation? I suppose I would be instructing this to be moved after I am no longer a resident in Switzerland so I wonder if this would be an issue...

Also, is there a limitation to the range of funds that one can invest in terms of the obligatory amount left in the country, or whether there is actually no distinction made - its effectively just a smaller amount to be managed. I would imagine theres no distinction, but worth to ask.
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  #268  
Old 04.03.2017, 22:26
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Now you're talking about 'obligatory part' - i guess you meant pillar 2 then, not pillar 3.
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  #269  
Old 05.03.2017, 01:17
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Now you're talking about 'obligatory part' - i guess you meant pillar 2 then, not pillar 3.
Yes, exactly, the company pension part. Actually, I thought that the whole thing only related to the 2nd pillar. It didn't occur to me that the 3rd piller would be treated in the same tax way, but I guess it is.

I used the calculator from earlier to confirm that canton Schwyz seems to be the least tax heavy, and I came across another thread that led me to this company within the canton that seems to confirm it:

http://www.liberty-vorsorge.ch/en/ve...reign-country/

The amounts saved are significant according to that, but I would like to certainly (i) reduce taxes by using the different canton BUT (ii) use UBS for the obligatory part.

Maybe Im asking too much - I need to check if I can transfer back the obligatory part after the transfer..
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  #270  
Old 22.03.2017, 19:13
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

I've seen Press reports that the Parliament has voted to raise, for women, the retirement age from 64 to 65.

My wife, who is 59, has asked how this will affect her, ie will it come into effect immediately or will it be phased in.

I've been searching but can't find an answer. Does anyone know?
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  #271  
Old 24.04.2017, 20:46
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Thanks, Daniel, this is very informative. I am a little confused still about my situation. I worked in Geneva for five years between 1994-1999 and paid into the retirement system. When I moved back to the US I received my employer's retirement fund assets and was under the belief that upon reaching age 65 or more I would be entitled to receive some sort of pension from the Swiss Social Security system. It wouldn't be much, but I was curious if my understanding is correct or if I am entitled to nothing since I live outside Switzerland now. Any help or referrals would be appreciated. Thanks! Dave
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  #272  
Old 24.04.2017, 21:23
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Thanks, Daniel, this is very informative. I am a little confused still about my situation. I worked in Geneva for five years between 1994-1999 and paid into the retirement system. When I moved back to the US I received my employer's retirement fund assets and was under the belief that upon reaching age 65 or more I would be entitled to receive some sort of pension from the Swiss Social Security system. It wouldn't be much, but I was curious if my understanding is correct or if I am entitled to nothing since I live outside Switzerland now. Any help or referrals would be appreciated. Thanks! Dave
Check with your employer's retirement provider and also check with this organisation for the Swiss State side of things.

https://www.ahv-iv.ch/en/
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  #273  
Old 24.04.2017, 21:51
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Thanks Medea, I'll check into this. Can't hurt to try...
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  #274  
Old 09.05.2017, 11:08
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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I left in 2011, transferred it all to Liberty (for lower tax), took some non-obligatory out.

Now I'm back and have to transfer the remaining Freizügigkeitskonto (obligatory) into my new employer's scheme.

It is that simple.

I'd imagine there are some rules if the gap was a year (or less or a bit more) to avoid piss taking with tax deducations etc
So far i have not heard much discussion about withdrawal on 1st pillar.
One of my friend whom had left and only received 25% cash of what was in the 1st pillar.

AHV asked him to check back when he is 65 to see if he is still entitled to monthly payout.

Does that make sense? Does transferring to Liberty help?
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  #275  
Old 09.05.2017, 18:29
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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So far i have not heard much discussion about withdrawal on 1st pillar.
One of my friend whom had left and only received 25% cash of what was in the 1st pillar.

AHV asked him to check back when he is 65 to see if he is still entitled to monthly payout.

Does that make sense? Does transferring to Liberty help?
I did not know you could take any Pillar 1 as cash, I don't believe you can.

I got my entire Pillar 2 in cash aged 52 leaving for the EU.
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  #276  
Old 09.05.2017, 18:53
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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I did not know you could take any Pillar 1 as cash, I don't believe you can.

I got my entire Pillar 2 in cash aged 52 leaving for the EU.
So does it mean that Pillar 1 is entirely forfeited?
Zero opportunity to even draw it out after age of 65?
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  #277  
Old 09.05.2017, 19:09
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

No, you should be able to claim your pension when you reach the right age.

https://www.ahv-iv.ch/en/Leaflets-fo...ons-OASI-DI-IC
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  #278  
Old 09.05.2017, 19:33
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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So does it mean that Pillar 1 is entirely forfeited?
Zero opportunity to even draw it out after age of 65?
You can claim from 63 IIRC for a reduced pension if you don't want to wait till 65, delay a few years & you get extra.
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  #279  
Old 09.05.2017, 20:22
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

If you move to non EU/EFTA country and except a few others, you should be able to get pillar 1 money back in general. But not all of it, only the pension part. Some part of pillar 1 is for disability, death insurance - that money you won't see again anymore. 75% loss however sounds extreme and not right

http://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/10.03.d
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  #280  
Old 09.05.2017, 20:34
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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What is relevant for the taxation (when non-resident) is the location of the pillar 3 foundation (trust), not which branch you contracted at. I believe for UBS that is Basel.
UBS has two.

One in Basel, which is useful for employees who leave one job and plan to start another in Switzerland and need somewhere to park their savings between jobs.

Their second is based in Schwyz, which is the lowest tax canton for drawing down pension savings as lump sum. This is used when the person wishes to keep / invest their savings for longer.

Geneva has pretty low drawdown tax rates as well.
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