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  #21  
Old 27.10.2009, 01:18
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Does one get to name their beneficiaries to their pension pot in case of any unforseen circumstances, or does the pot break upon such events?
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  #22  
Old 27.10.2009, 14:34
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Does one get to name their beneficiaries to their pension pot in case of any unforseen circumstances, or does the pot break upon such events?
It depends on the rules of the pension fund, but generally yes you do get to name a beneficiary. If none named then the scheme will normally have some division rules.

Daniel
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  #23  
Old 27.10.2009, 19:21
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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It depends on the rules of the pension fund, but generally yes you do get to name a beneficiary. If none named then the scheme will normally have some division rules.

Daniel
How does that work?

When the insured person dies, then the spouse and/or children are entitled to a pension. There is no inheritable capital.
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  #24  
Old 27.10.2009, 19:44
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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How does that work?

When the insured person dies, then the spouse and/or children are entitled to a pension. There is no inheritable capital.
Not quite sure what the intended tone of this mail was.

But, my 3rd pillar is all capital.

My 2nd pillar includes an option for the capital to be paid out in the event of death pre retirement. A widow gets a pension but can elect to get the capital less payments received. Not everyone will have a widow, and so you can nominate the beneficiary (not sure how this interacts with spousal rights if any).

Clearly with an annuity rate at c 6% the pension is an attractive option, but there may be situations where the cash is needed, or the 40% haircut on the widows pension is not attractive (say you died almost at retirement age).

D
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  #25  
Old 28.10.2009, 12:05
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Not quite sure what the intended tone of this mail was.

But, my 3rd pillar is all capital.

My 2nd pillar includes an option for the capital to be paid out in the event of death pre retirement. A widow gets a pension but can elect to get the capital less payments received. Not everyone will have a widow, and so you can nominate the beneficiary (not sure how this interacts with spousal rights if any).

Clearly with an annuity rate at c 6% the pension is an attractive option, but there may be situations where the cash is needed, or the 40% haircut on the widows pension is not attractive (say you died almost at retirement age).

D
The 27th October 2009 edition of the Swiss TV program "Kassensturz"
http://www.sf.tv/sendungen/kassenstu...-pensionskasse
reports a tragic case.

The facts for those who cannot read German:
Man aged 52 died of cancer. He had no wife but a son and daughter in their 20s. He had borrowed CHF 110k from his pension to buy a house. The pension fund says that the son and daughter do not get any pension capital. Son and daughter must sell house and repay the pension fund the borrowed money!

Hence, do not asume the pension fund will pay out capital of deceased. Not even the progeny have legal claim to get deceased's capital.
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  #26  
Old 21.11.2009, 16:54
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

This thread has been very educational, and I add my thanks to the contributors.

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The 27th October 2009 edition of the Swiss TV program "Kassensturz"...reports a tragic case.

...He had borrowed CHF 110k from his pension to buy a house. The pension fund says that the son and daughter do not get any pension capital. Son and daughter must sell house and repay the pension fund the borrowed money!

Hence, do not asume the pension fund will pay out capital of deceased. Not even the progeny have legal claim to get deceased's capital.
Am I right in thinking this kind of thing is wholly dependent on the terms of the fund, which vary from case to case, and can be avoided by taking care to choose a fund with terms that do award capital to one's beneficiaries/survivors?
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  #27  
Old 21.11.2009, 18:06
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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This thread has been very educational, and I add my thanks to the contributors.

Am I right in thinking this kind of thing is wholly dependent on the terms of the fund, which vary from case to case, and can be avoided by taking care to choose a fund with terms that do award capital to one's beneficiaries/survivors?
Yes it depends on the rules of the pension fund.

Employees must join the employer's pension fund. So there is no choice, unless you are the employer and can write the rules.
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  #28  
Old 15.12.2009, 12:46
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Is there some kind of calculator available where one can input their earnings and find out how much their pension pot should be.

I am in the situation where I have been working here for eight years and I just left a job and of course my pension pot goes into the frozen freizugigskeitkonto until I find a new job.

My question is, the account has x amount of cash, but how do i calculate whether it is approximately the correct amount? Any pointers?
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  #29  
Old 16.12.2009, 10:45
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

The reason i ask is, i suspect that there is a chance that my last firm did not pay the correct amount of pension money but i am unsure how to check this. Can anyone help?`
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  #30  
Old 16.12.2009, 14:57
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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The reason i ask is, i suspect that there is a chance that my last firm did not pay the correct amount of pension money but i am unsure how to check this. Can anyone help?`
Look back through your earlier salary statements. Those show how much was deducted. Compare with amount in pension plan.
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  #31  
Old 16.12.2009, 15:56
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Yes, but how do I make sure that the amount deducted is the right amount? Eg if I earn 100k chf then what % should be deducted? Should it be double if I earn double or is it a progressive thing?
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  #32  
Old 16.12.2009, 19:22
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Yes, but how do I make sure that the amount deducted is the right amount? Eg if I earn 100k chf then what % should be deducted? Should it be double if I earn double or is it a progressive thing?
Pertinent factors are:
  1. Your age group.
  2. Fraction that employer pays (employer must pay minimum half but can generously contribute more)
  3. Risk premium for death and disability. The rest is the savings component.
Unless your employer is/was small and incompetent, they should be right. If unsure, you can ask the pension plan to explain the numbers. Of course, you can go to an accountant who will verify for a fee.
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  #33  
Old 17.12.2009, 20:15
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

My employer was only competent enough to go bankrupt, and they even make a mess of that.
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  #34  
Old 17.12.2009, 22:39
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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My employer was only competent enough to go bankrupt, and they even make a mess of that.
Your employer went bankrupt? Then substantial risks exist that:
  1. Pension-plan deductions were not credited to the pension plan. You should get this immediately audited and urgently contact the liquidator to obtain reimbursement of any shortfalls.
  2. AHV contributions were not passed on. Request the AHV for a statement showing credited contributions. Any shortfalls would be a criminal offense for which the executives are personally liable.
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  #35  
Old 19.12.2009, 10:13
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Your employer went bankrupt? Then substantial risks exist that:
  1. Pension-plan deductions were not credited to the pension plan. You should get this immediately audited and urgently contact the liquidator to obtain reimbursement of any shortfalls.
  2. AHV contributions were not passed on. Request the AHV for a statement showing credited contributions. Any shortfalls would be a criminal offense for which the executives are personally liable.
well, i would guess only for the notice period of my contract.

However, my point is, asking the ahv for a statement is a bit pointless when i do not fully understand the calculations. better to ask them maybe for an explanation as i still do not really understand the system.
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  #36  
Old 19.12.2009, 15:42
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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well, i would guess only for the notice period of my contract.

However, my point is, asking the ahv for a statement is a bit pointless when i do not fully understand the calculations. better to ask them maybe for an explanation as i still do not really understand the system.
I think Goldtop is saying that the deductions(AHV,pension) which were surely deducted from your monthly salary is not 100% that were paid to the authorities. To know this, you do not need to understand calculations. (my company played this with the pensions, but finally they paid it (a year in one amount). but if they go bankrupt before, employees f***ed up).

On the other hand pension calculations are quite difficult(for me). Depends on age, and pension plan. Company is need to pay pension after 56k CHF annual salary. This is the mandatory amount, but they can say that they pay after more salary(eg my company pays after all my salary).
As far as i remeber there is a thread on this (an old one) where Richard explained it.
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  #37  
Old 19.12.2009, 18:51
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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well, i would guess only for the notice period of my contract.

However, my point is, asking the ahv for a statement is a bit pointless when i do not fully understand the calculations. better to ask them maybe for an explanation as i still do not really understand the system.
AHV: Suggest the following
1. Ask the AHV (SVA in ZH) for a statement.
2. If it shows no contributions, for a month you worked, then it indicates fraud.
3. If there is a contribution, check whether it is consistent with the amount deducted in your pay statement.
4. Visit the SVA offices and request them to help you discover correctness.
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  #38  
Old 05.01.2010, 18:59
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Many thanks for an excelllent post.

Unfortunatley th elink to Crdit suisse goes to the personal banknig home page (in German) & I canot find there the publicatiion. Would you be able to post it somewhere or e-mail to me
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  #39  
Old 24.03.2010, 01:25
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

hi guys you sound very knowledgable on this, can i ask you what is the total percentage to be calculated based on your gross salary for BVG (2nd pillar, company pension fund), i know out of that x%, the employer and employee shares half half (on a worst case), but like to know what is the 'x'?
in my case my company pay 100% of the x% (BVG), and my contractual gross salary is 10000CHF, when they calculate the monthly deduction, they put my salary as 10000+587CHF, and he told me that the CHF587 is taxable and regard as personal income, can that be possible?
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  #40  
Old 24.03.2010, 20:44
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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hi guys you sound very knowledgable on this, can i ask you what is the total percentage to be calculated based on your gross salary for BVG (2nd pillar, company pension fund), i know out of that x%, the employer and employee shares half half (on a worst case), but like to know what is the 'x'?
in my case my company pay 100% of the x% (BVG), and my contractual gross salary is 10000CHF, when they calculate the monthly deduction, they put my salary as 10000+587CHF, and he told me that the CHF587 is taxable and regard as personal income, can that be possible?
The x consists of an x1 and a x2:
  • x1 is the savings component for your future pension. The contribution depends on your age.
  • x2 is the risk premium that the insurance company collects to insure against death and disability.
Ask your employer for a detailed pension statement.
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