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  #101  
Old 08.04.2013, 16:13
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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There is a period of grace for owner-managers where you could not pay yourself at all or little.
Do you know how long is this grace period and what is the minum they can pay themselves? Also how are AVS contributions calculated then for this enterpreneur?
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  #102  
Old 08.04.2013, 16:17
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Do you know how long is this grace period and what is the minum they can pay themselves? Also how are AVS contributions calculated then for this enterpreneur?
It would seem from Goldtop's post that strictly speaking if you are not employed and not unemployed but below retirement age you should be paying anyway.

However in practice the advice I received that for upto the first year it would be OK as owner/manager to work without drawing a salary. However again, you are not insured at all during that period.
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  #103  
Old 08.04.2013, 17:23
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Do you know how long is this grace period and what is the minum they can pay themselves? Also how are AVS contributions calculated then for this enterpreneur?
The AVS rules do not envisage a "grace period". Maybe someone at the pertinent AVS office is tolerant and gives you some flexibility. That you will need to discover from your friendly local AVS office.

Either you pay the social security contributions based on income or based on wealth. Note "wealth" is half the combined wealth of both spouses. If you/spouse are wealthy, then contributions based on income may be lower.
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  #104  
Old 08.04.2013, 17:29
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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The AVS rules do not envisage a "grace period". Maybe someone at the pertinent AVS office is tolerant and gives you some flexibility. That you will need to discover from your friendly local AVS office.

Either you pay the social security contributions based on income or based on wealth. Note "wealth" is half the combined wealth of both spouses. If you/spouse are wealthy, then contributions based on income may be lower.
What about spouses? Just one has to be paying?
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  #105  
Old 08.04.2013, 17:31
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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There is no AVS for shareholders of a business as it is an employment related tax...
.
It is not a tax. It is a mandatory insurance premium against invalidity, unemployment, etc. And it is a prerequisite for a state pension.
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  #106  
Old 08.04.2013, 17:36
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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What about spouses? Just one has to be paying?
Basically both spouses must pay premiums, if they both have income.

However if one spouse has no income then he/she is exempted if the other spouse is paying more than a threshold amount.
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  #107  
Old 08.04.2013, 17:55
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Either you pay the social security contributions based on income.
Thanks. Is there a minimum income to qualify to pay AVS on basis of income? If the company is a start up and it can only pay a small income, can someone fall into some grey area of being "in between" the income and wealth for AVS calculation purposes? There is a min CHF480 per yr per person AVS contribution requirement which is 7.8% of the annual income. Can the enterpreneur pay the minimum CHF480 per yr even if the income the company can pay him is below CHF480/7.8% = CHF 6.5K? can he make annual voluntary AVS contributions of double the minimum so that he covers for his spouse as well even if he cannot pay himslef a salary of CHF13K, which would lead to AVS of CHF960 and cover both him and his spouse?

In terms of local AVS office, is this at the place of his residence or at the place where the company is registered as he may live in a different Canton then where the compay is located?
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  #108  
Old 08.04.2013, 17:57
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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If one spouse has no income then he/she is exempted if the other spouse is paying more than a threshold amount.
What is the threshold amount per couple if one spouse has no income? Does it differ from Canton to Canton?
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  #109  
Old 09.04.2013, 09:11
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Very good summary thanks! I have a specific question regarding accessing the funds upon leaving Switzerland. As a EU citizen if I leave Switzerland for the US, will I qualify for a pay out of the pillar 2? How can confirm if the person leaving Switzerland is going to an EU country or non-EU country?
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  #110  
Old 09.04.2013, 12:25
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Very good summary thanks! I have a specific question regarding accessing the funds upon leaving Switzerland. As a EU citizen if I leave Switzerland for the US, will I qualify for a pay out of the pillar 2? How can confirm if the person leaving Switzerland is going to an EU country or non-EU country?
Yes, its the country of destination not origin that counts, although you may have to demonstrate you have no current intention to return to the EU.

Regardless of where you go EU or not, you can have the supraobligatory part of the pillar paid out as the rule just affects the obligatory contributions.

It's upto you to satisfy your second pillar holder that you qualify. Generally when you leave your employer it is one of the options on the request form that you will be given, at least it was when I left employment a year ago.
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  #111  
Old 09.04.2013, 13:46
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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although you may have to demonstrate you have no current intention to return to the EU.
Interesting concept which implies that they could make their decision to pay out or not dependent on how likely they think it is that you will come back to an EU country or retire in an EU country. Hopefully I'm not alone in this, but who can plan that in this day and age? I'm glad if I know what country my next job will be in! In which case, I'll do my best to get the total pay out now and invest it myself.
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  #112  
Old 09.04.2013, 14:25
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Interesting concept which implies that they could make their decision to pay out or not dependent on how likely they think it is that you will come back to an EU country or retire in an EU country. Hopefully I'm not alone in this, but who can plan that in this day and age? I'm glad if I know what country my next job will be in! In which case, I'll do my best to get the total pay out now and invest it myself.
I suspect you have to say your intending to live 'permanently' out of the EU, rather like the UK revenue form to get out of paying UK tax.
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  #113  
Old 09.04.2013, 14:56
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Interesting concept which implies that they could make their decision to pay out or not dependent on how likely they think it is that you will come back to an EU country or retire in an EU country. Hopefully I'm not alone in this, but who can plan that in this day and age? I'm glad if I know what country my next job will be in! In which case, I'll do my best to get the total pay out now and invest it myself.
I wouldnt get too hung up on it. Another poster recently was leaving their family here and going on a temporary contract as I remember... more those sort of questionable circumstances than proving the unprovable.
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  #114  
Old 09.04.2013, 15:47
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Do you know if there is a minimum salary that a business owners needs to pay himslef as far as minimum AVS contributions need to be made so that he does not get catagorised as person without an economic activity? or can they just make CHF480 per yr AVS contributions even if their salary is extremely small (around CHF5K per yr)?
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  #115  
Old 09.04.2013, 16:02
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Do you know if there is a minimum salary that a business owners needs to pay himslef as far as minimum AVS contributions need to be made so that he does not get catagorised as person without an economic activity? or can they just make CHF480 per yr AVS contributions even if their salary is extremely small (around CHF5K per yr)?
If they are earning 5k a year they have an economic activity.
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  #116  
Old 09.04.2013, 17:37
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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If they are earning 5k a year they have an economic activity.
Thanks. So there is no real minimum salary for AVS to qualify for econ activity area then??

Can they also make voluntary contributions of double the min AVS requirement of CHF480 in order to cover their spouses' AVS contribution requirements so that the spouse does not have to pay as person without an economic activity, i.e. on the basis of spouse's wealth?

How about if they earn CHF2K per yr as a sole trader without setting up a company ( say if they teach English as a foreing language)?


Also can GmbH be involved in more than one activity (e.g. selling products over the internet, langauge translations services, small coffee shops, business consultancy, etc)? In this way there are more possibilities for the company to generate cash flow as there are more streams of income
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  #117  
Old 09.04.2013, 18:03
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Thanks. So there is no real minimum salary for AVS to qualify for econ activity area then??

Can they also make voluntary contributions of double the min AVS requirement of CHF480 in order to cover their spouses' AVS contribution requirements so that the spouse does not have to pay as person without an economic activity, i.e. on the basis of spouse's wealth?

How about if they earn CHF2K per yr as a sole trader without setting up a company ( say if they teach English as a foreing language)?


Also can GmbH be involved in more than one activity (e.g. selling products over the internet, langauge translations services, small coffee shops, business consultancy, etc)? In this way there are more possibilities for the company to generate cash flow as there are more streams of income
If your self employed you have to pay the minimum in any case, unless it's under 2k iirc. I declared 3k of foreign earnings on my tax return & the tax authorities asked for conformation that I had paid self employed in addition to employed AVS.
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  #118  
Old 09.04.2013, 18:12
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Thanks. So there is no real minimum salary for AVS to qualify for econ activity area then??

Can they also make voluntary contributions of double the min AVS requirement of CHF480 in order to cover their spouses' AVS contribution requirements so that the spouse does not have to pay as person without an economic activity, i.e. on the basis of spouse's wealth?

How about if they earn CHF2K per yr as a sole trader without setting up a company ( say if they teach English as a foreing language)?


Also can GmbH be involved in more than one activity (e.g. selling products over the internet, langauge translations services, small coffee shops, business consultancy, etc)? In this way there are more possibilities for the company to generate cash flow as there are more streams of income
About "can GmbH be involved in more than one activity " - basically you can do whatever you listed in the Handelsregister as the company activities (Zweck).
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  #119  
Old 10.04.2013, 12:50
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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About "can GmbH be involved in more than one activity " - basically you can do whatever you listed in the Handelsregister as the company activities (Zweck).
Can this descrption later on be amended if new ways of making money are discoverd?

Would the best way be to have a VERY broad general description listing any kind of an activity that one can think of that the company might possible be involved in the future?
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  #120  
Old 10.04.2013, 13:02
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Can this descrption later on be amended if new ways of making money are discoverd?

Would the best way be to have a VERY broad general description listing any kind of an activity that one can think of that the company might possible be involved in the future?
Changes cost money, so activities are often quite wide. Being a sole trader might be less hassle as the costs of running a company are higher.
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