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  #141  
Old 30.08.2013, 15:34
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Hi, I can't seem to find an answer to this in the previous discussions on Pillar II. Somebody asked about the minimum contribution rate to Pillar II in a previous thread. The response given was that it was a formula based on

Salary
Age

The higher the salary and age the higher the percentage. I'm trying to figure out what is that formula. There are plenty of tax calculators online which tells you the tax withholdings, but I can't seem to find one that tells you about the Pillar II contributions.

I know that for an employee the higher the contribution rate the better. I'm trying to find out what is the minimum for both the employee and the employer.

Thanks
This also depends on the target goal of the future pension. 36% of your salary is the minimun. You have to ask and compare.
Here for ex. is the table used by the Pensionskasse of the City of Zurich http://www.englishforum.ch/newreply....eply&p=1964012

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I have a question, I tried a few searches but it is something a bit specific so I couldn't find anything.

I have now received 2 salaries, and my 2nd one was lower.
After investigating the issue, the AHV and ALV payments were deducted in both months, and the difference was due to 3 "PK" amounts deducted (PK = Pensionkasse I believe):
PK Sparbeitrag
PK Risikobeitrag
PK Verwaltungskosten

which I believe are due to pension payment, and appeared only on the 2nd month (and I presume will be deducted in future months as well).

Now I am a bit puzzled because I thought these payments are compulsory, shouldn't my employer have deducted it on my first month as well? Is this a problem and should I do something about it or just be glad I got a little bit extra and pocket it for my own pension savings (like Pillar 3a which I intend to sign up for soon)?
Best ask your HR departement if the payment was missed. Important because the contribution is at least matched by the employer and is non taxable. Which means you did not get extra but lost money (except for Mr. fatmanfilms who has better investment scheemes ).

PK Sparbeitrag : Your savings contributions (will be at least matched by employer)
PK Risikobeitrag : Insurance part cover early death, invadility, etc.
PK Verwaltungskosten : Administration cost.
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  #142  
Old 30.08.2013, 16:04
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Best ask your HR departement if the payment was missed. Important because the contribution is at least matched by the employer and is non taxable. Which means you did not get extra but lost money (except for Mr. fatmanfilms who has better investment scheemes ).
Thank you for the quick reply.

I knew the employer matched the contribution but I am still not sure it is lost money My employment in Switzerland is temporary and as an EU citizen I can't recover the value paid into the pension plan when I leave.

Technically I think the pension payments then revert in favor of contributions for a pension in whatever EU country I end up retiring, but sadly if I retire in e.g. Portugal I'm not sure I actually will see the money again :P
(I vaguely remember reading in the forum about keeping Swiss pension and getting payments despite retiring abroad, but I don't think this is an option for EU citizens).

In any case, I think I will wait for my third salary. If it is between the 1st and 2nd amount, they may have taken two months worth out in the 2nd month due to "forgetting" in the 1st. If not I will probably contact HR to check what to happened and what to do about it.
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  #143  
Old 03.10.2013, 12:30
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Wondered if you can help..

My girlfriend is leaving Switzerland permanently on 30th October 2013 after working their for 6 years.

She wants to transfer her funds into my HSBC Business Account to invest in my Business.

Basically, what steps does she need to take to make this happen please ?

Regards,
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  #144  
Old 03.10.2013, 12:34
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

The only way you can do this is if you can show that she leaves the EU completely to an address outside of the EU for which she has a residence permit. You can then apply for her BVG to be paid out.

You cannot transfer to a fund that is not in your own name and only to certain approved fund types anyway.

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Wondered if you can help..

My girlfriend is leaving Switzerland permanently on 30th October 2013 after working their for 6 years.

She wants to transfer her funds into my HSBC Business Account to invest in my Business.

Basically, what steps does she need to take to make this happen please ?

Regards,
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  #145  
Old 03.10.2013, 12:35
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Wondered if you can help..

My girlfriend is leaving Switzerland permanently on 30th October 2013 after working their for 6 years.

She wants to transfer her funds into my HSBC Business Account to invest in my Business.

Basically, what steps does she need to take to make this happen please ?

Regards,
Not possible.

If your GF were to become 100% self employed whilst in CH she could use he pension fund to develop her own business during the FIRST year of trading.

Once you GF reaches 60 she can take 100% cash lump sum, however it could be taxed as income depending on the tax laws of her country of residence.

100% of the pension saved before age 50 may be used to purchase a main residence anywhere in the EU.
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  #146  
Old 03.10.2013, 15:41
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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The only way you can do this is if you can show that she leaves the EU completely to an address outside of the EU for which she has a residence permit. You can then apply for her BVG to be paid out.

You cannot transfer to a fund that is not in your own name and only to certain approved fund types anyway.

Thanks for the reply...

She is coming back to the UK.. She is a UK Resident and actually has a Nationwide Account in her own name.

Can she transfer the Cash into this Account ? Or if not how does she go about retrieving what she has paid in ?

Regards
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  #147  
Old 03.10.2013, 15:46
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Thanks for the reply...

She is coming back to the UK.. She is a UK Resident and actually has a Nationwide Account in her own name.

Can she transfer the Cash into this Account ? Or if not how does she go about retrieving what she has paid in ?

Regards
She can't until aged 60 as the UK is in the EU.......... unless she uses to buy a main residence she can't get the money now.
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  #148  
Old 03.10.2013, 16:14
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Thanks to all for the sterling advice.. not the news she wanted.. but thanks none the less.

Regards
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  #149  
Old 03.10.2013, 16:22
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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In any case, I think I will wait for my third salary. If it is between the 1st and 2nd amount, they may have taken two months worth out in the 2nd month due to "forgetting" in the 1st. If not I will probably contact HR to check what to happened and what to do about it.
This reminds me, now that I saw my 3rd salary, I checked and they did deduct two months worth in the 2nd month.

On the other hand they were overcharging me for Quellensteuer during the first two months and paid the excess back now - so for the first 4 months at least I am getting a different salary at the end of each month! Sort of funny.
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  #150  
Old 03.10.2013, 19:29
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Thanks to all for the sterling advice.. not the news she wanted.. but thanks none the less.

Regards
The above replies might be a little simplistic, depending on what you mean by 'her funds' and depending on her situation. Pillar 1 (state pension, AHV) is non-transferrable. But from pillar 2 (BVG) company pension, depending on your contribution level, you may have an excess above the 'mandatory' insurance level. In this case, this excess can be transferred out even if you are moving to an EU/EFTA state. Depending on your circumstances, this can be the majority of the funds from BVG (in my case it certainly is). In addition, I believe there is no restriction on repatriation of Pillar 3 if you have it.

Additionally, the agreement with EU/EFTA relating to the mandatory part, only applies to people who would be obliged to be insured in pillar 2 of their EU/EFTA state. I don't know what exemptions there would be (self employed, disabled, critically ill....?) but certainly the agreement allows for this.
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  #151  
Old 12.10.2013, 18:08
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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The above replies might be a little simplistic, depending on what you mean by 'her funds' and depending on her situation. Pillar 1 (state pension, AHV) is non-transferrable. But from pillar 2 (BVG) company pension, depending on your contribution level, you may have an excess above the 'mandatory' insurance level. In this case, this excess can be transferred out even if you are moving to an EU/EFTA state. Depending on your circumstances, this can be the majority of the funds from BVG (in my case it certainly is). In addition, I believe there is no restriction on repatriation of Pillar 3 if you have it.

Additionally, the agreement with EU/EFTA relating to the mandatory part, only applies to people who would be obliged to be insured in pillar 2 of their EU/EFTA state. I don't know what exemptions there would be (self employed, disabled, critically ill....?) but certainly the agreement allows for this.
Most timely.

I have left Switzerland and moved to an EU state. I was told by my pension fund before I left that I could get a repayment of part of my Pillar 2 - the amount you quite rightly specify as that above the mandatory amount. It is substantial enough for me to care about. I have been corresponding with my bank recently on this and am due to have a call with them early next week. I am hoping that they do not create an issue with the amount that I can take out in cash as I would rather invest it myself than leave it in someone else's hands. I am not keen on a sub-par bond rate less fees for mediocre asset management... but I digress.

There is no restriction on the Pillar 3 as long as the funds have been in the bank for over a year. I have to leave mine for a further six months or pay CHF 500 to take them out. I can wait.

I will update on the outcome of the Pillar 2 discussion when I get more information.
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  #152  
Old 17.10.2013, 23:20
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

My update:

The conversation is ongoing, but this is the state of play for a move to another country in the EU for pillar 2 (employer pension)

Documents that I need to provide:

- a copy of deregistration and registration in my destination country, both under a year old.
- a notarised copy of my passport and that of my spouse
- a jointly signed letter confirming the request to take my funds out in cash

I have been told that I can definitely take out the supra obligatory portion of my pension - this is the amount above the minimum that my employer and I made.

Most interesting, I have been advised that depending on my situation, I can possibly take out the obligatory portion too. This depends if you are contributing to the social insurance in your destination country apparently, although my bank were uncertain - I have registered as self-employed and am making monthly contributions to the health system. My bank thought that this would exclude me from receiving the obligatory portion. I mentioned that I was equally happy to exit the system in return for the pot of cash (the most interesting part for me as I would rather control my own funds as I think I mentioned before).

They have advised me to contact this lot:

http://www.verbindungsstelle.ch/xml_...t/de/intro.cfm

The relevant page seems to be this one:

Cash payment on departure abroad
http://www.verbindungsstelle.ch/xml_...on/d51/f61.cfm

Obviously if there is a chance that you can get your grubby mitts on the filthy lucre now (or within, lets say, a year), or in 30 years or whatever it is by the time you retire in some other country, and have forgotten that you even had money in some corp pension in good old Switzyland, my guess is that you are going to prefer the more immediate option.

So, long-short, I will read the website and in fact call them tomorrow and let you know what I discover in due course.
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  #153  
Old 24.11.2013, 11:00
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Pillar-3 bank account can usually be liquidated within 4 or 5 days.
You must submit:
  1. Application form.
  2. Certificate of de-registration from the Swiss commune where you resided.
  3. If married, notarized signature of spouse agreeing to liquidation.
But how are the proceeds taxed back in the UK? Are they deemed to be unauthorised payments from a pension scheme subject to punitive taxation or as net relevent earnings, as the liquidation only occurs after you have left Switzerland and therefore occurs when you are resident in the UK, and therefore available for investment in a SIPP? HMRC guidance notes are very unclear.

If the punitive tax charges (40% or 55% with surcharge) apply can these be set off against any unused personal allowance or relieved with, for example, EIS relief?

Does the £18,000 lump sum winding up limit apply per scheme, e.g. you may have a pillar 2 and a pillar 3 or have set up several pillar 3 schemes with different providers) or per person?

Incidentally, I understand that you can claim the Swiss WHT back once the transaction is complete.
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  #154  
Old 25.11.2013, 23:01
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Hello

I have some questions about the 3rd pillar (basically on how to choose one) which seem trivial but i cant find the answers!

I understand that you just dont pick the one with the highest rate but that there some schemes can be tough to terminate once you leave the country etc...

Do they revise their rates every year ? are you allowed to change your provider like for basic health insurance ? Until when can you do it to reduce your tax for 2013 ?
I missed it last year so i'm starting to worry about it (since health insurance has a end of november deadline) and dont want to hurry and make a mistake. Is there one you recommend ?

Last edited by varioplus; 25.11.2013 at 23:43.
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  #155  
Old 26.11.2013, 11:30
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Question here about voluntary top ups of the second pillar.

I will be arriving in Switzerland late March and expect to be there potentially until retirement. For this reason, I would like to top up my 2nd pillar pension to (partially) cover for the years I've not built up any pension in Switzerland.

My understanding is that it is possible to do so for 5 years until after arrival and at a maximum of 20% of your salary each year and that the top up is tax deductable. For example:
- I have 100k CHF savings
- I have 200k CHF annual salary
- I decide to make a 40k CHF contribution to my pension, resulting in my taxable salary for the year being reduced to 160k (so practically 1/3 of my pension contribution is paid by the tax authorities)

Questions:

1) Can I then relatively quickly apply the pension to purchasing a home? This way I'd save a substantial amount of money by using 2nd pillar as a slush fund to reduce my taxable income by more efficiently using the money than if I were to make a direct downpayment for a home

2) Practically, how do I make this extra 2nd pillar payment?

Appreciate the feedback.
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  #156  
Old 26.11.2013, 11:38
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Question here about voluntary top ups of the second pillar.

I will be arriving in Switzerland late March and expect to be there potentially until retirement. For this reason, I would like to top up my 2nd pillar pension to (partially) cover for the years I've not built up any pension in Switzerland.

My understanding is that it is possible to do so for 5 years until after arrival and at a maximum of 20% of your salary each year and that the top up is tax deductable. For example:
- I have 100k CHF savings
- I have 200k CHF annual salary
- I decide to make a 40k CHF contribution to my pension, resulting in my taxable salary for the year being reduced to 160k (so practically 1/3 of my pension contribution is paid by the tax authorities)

Questions:

1) Can I then relatively quickly apply the pension to purchasing a home? This way I'd save a substantial amount of money by using 2nd pillar as a slush fund to reduce my taxable income by more efficiently using the money than if I were to make a direct downpayment for a home

2) Practically, how do I make this extra 2nd pillar payment?

Appreciate the feedback.
You can buy any missing years, there is no 20% restriction, I did it after 10 years being here.
You ask the pension company how much you can pay & then pay.
You will get tax relief at some point in the further when your taxes are finally calculated.
You have to pay some tax when the pension funds are released.
You have to make 10% of your deposit in cash, so if you pay too much into the pension fund you won't be able to buy the house.
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  #157  
Old 26.11.2013, 11:39
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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You can buy any missing years, there is no 20% restriction.
You ask the pension company how much you can pay & then pay.
You will get tax relief at some point in the further when your taxes are finally calculated.
You have to pay some tax when the pension funds are released.
You have to make 10% of your deposit in cash, so if you pay too much into the pension fund you won't be able to buy the house.
Thank you, very useful feedback. I'll await information from my new employer about the pension fund used.

Sounds like the 2nd pillar (aside from the need for a 10% deposit in cash when buying a flat) can be a good way to save a substantial amount of $ by taking the 2nd pillar detour rather than usint funds to make direct downpayments on a new Wohnung.
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  #158  
Old 26.11.2013, 11:43
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Thank you, very useful feedback. I'll await information from my new employer about the pension fund used.

Sounds like the 2nd pillar (aside from the need for a 10% deposit in cash when buying a flat) can be a good way to save a substantial amount of $ by taking the 2nd pillar detour rather than usint funds to make direct downpayments on a new Wohnung.
Rather depends on how your going to live in retirement, Swiss Mortgages run forever once your down to 65% mortgage, so probably not the cleverest idea through lots of people do it.

You do realise that your takes on the notional rent of living in your own house
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Old 26.11.2013, 11:46
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Rather depends on how your going to live in retirement, Swiss Mortgages run forever once your down to 65% mortgage, so probably not the cleverest idea through lots of people do it.

You do realise that your takes on the notional rent of living in your own house
What do you mean with mortgages running forever when you're down to 65%? Why the 65% limit?
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Old 26.11.2013, 11:55
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What do you mean with mortgages running forever when you're down to 65%? Why the 65% limit?
That's how it's done here....... you could pay off the rest if you wanted, but you won't see it in any quotation.

Children inherit their parents house, can't pay the mortgage so it's sold.......Rent from a landlord who pays for the repairs or rent from a bank & pay the repairs yourself. Add capital gains tax on sale, tax on notional income & you can see why most Swiss don't ever bother to own.
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