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  #161  
Old 26.11.2013, 22:37
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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I will be arriving in Switzerland late March...
My understanding is that it is possible to do so for 5 years until after arrival and at a maximum of 20% of your salary each year...
1) Can I then relatively quickly apply the pension to purchasing a home? ...
2) Practically, how do I make this extra 2nd pillar payment?
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there is no 20% restriction
You need to be aware of the revisions to the BVG law in Jan 2006. I believe these revisions limited to 20% of salary the amount of contribution a person arriving from abroad can make if that arrival was after 01-Jan-2006. I cannot find a good reference, but this makes brief reference to it http://www.ascom.ch/apk/ch-de/einkauf-erklaerung_-e.pdf

It also makes reference to another restriction made in that revision. Once you make a voluntary 'purchase' contribution to the pillar 2, you must leave it and any gained interest for 3 years before it can be withdrawn. Further, I believe there was some grey area regarding how much of the pension became 'frozen' in this way, either the whole pension or just the additional contribution. I believe it was tested in the courts and confirmed in 2011 that the whole pension becomes blocked for this 3 year period, not just the contribution made.

You may find this reference helpful - I have not read through in detail, but it seems to cover a lot of ground...and in English..

https://www.axa-winterthur.ch/SiteCo...ch-voll_en.pdf
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  #162  
Old 28.11.2013, 14:25
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Questions on the 2nd pillar pension.

If I understand correct, there are several buckets of contribution and with legally minimum contribution levels:
- 25-34 years of age - 7%
- 35-44 years of age - 10%
- 45-54 years of age - 15%
- 55+ years of age - 18%

And that these contributions are only on salary > roughly 25K CHF and a statutory maximum of roughly 85K CHF

And that there are roughly 3 instruments for employers to provide additional benefits:
- increase contribution %'s to over above minimum %'s
- shift weight of employer part of that contribution % even more to employer
- increase the maxumum salary on which the contributions are applied

My employer wishes to stick with above minimum %'s and use a 60/40 split (employer vs. employee) for the contributions but cap the upper salary level to which contributions will be applied not at 85K CHF but at 750K CHF. Is this considered normal or good or exceptionally good from an employee perspective?

Second question, as an employee you can go for low/medium/high pillar 2 contributions. What is customary in Switzerland? Benefits of going high obviously are that you build a higher pension and tax efficiency as you get it paid out in the future at a lower tax rate (based on having lower income as a pensioner). Is this the idea behind it?

Third question, I've read that the pension you'll receive is basically 6.8% of the built up capital - i.e. build up 2M CHF and you'll get a 136k CHF pension. This is assuming you've contributed your entire life.

Does this 6.8% cover pillar 1, 2 and 3 combined or just applies to pillar 2?
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  #163  
Old 28.11.2013, 14:34
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Swiss pensions consolidated summary

It's quite normal , pensions not very generous .
I doubt there is much choice as its so regulated.
Just pillar 2, extra contributions are a lower rate.
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  #164  
Old 28.11.2013, 14:43
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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It's quite normal , pensions not very generous .
I doubt there is much choice as its so regulated.
Just pillar 2, extra contributions are a lower rate.
Thanks, so if you build up 2M CHF capital in pillar two you'll receive:
- 6.8% pension of that each year (136k)
- any additional $ from pillar 3
- and additional $ from pillar 1

That's not so bad then.

I was assuming that lifting the pillar 2 cap from 85K to 750K for employer/employee contributions would be considered generous, I guess I was wrong
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  #165  
Old 28.11.2013, 15:33
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Thanks, so if you build up 2M CHF capital in pillar two you'll receive:
- 6.8% pension of that each year (136k)
- any additional $ from pillar 3
- and additional $ from pillar 1

That's not so bad then.

I was assuming that lifting the pillar 2 cap from 85K to 750K for employer/employee contributions would be considered generous, I guess I was wrong
Most Swiss pension funds grow very slowly, to have a fund of 2,000,000 you will have probably had to earn 12,000,000 + in your career over 40 years & have pension contributions paid on the whole thing. Only a small amount will be at 6.8% the majority will be about 1% lower.
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  #166  
Old 09.01.2014, 23:37
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

I am new in this forum and I hope this time I got the right way to put my question.

I am from a Non-EU country, who worked in Switzerland for 2 years, somehow the pension contribution I made was around lets say CHF 20K. Out of this, they are paying me some CHF 11K, if I go to my native country.

But I am moving to France and I am supposed to get my pension moved to some French Pension Fund. I do now know if that exists as I had earlier worked in France and I never got any return when I left the country.

So, now the Swiss will not send my pension to my native country and will move it to France (where, how,why?, I have no idea) and in this transaction too, I will end up losing money as they will move CHF 8K, great, what happens to this CHF 3K?

And French will not give me this money, so where does it goes?
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  #167  
Old 10.01.2014, 07:37
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Have you read the earlier posts on this thread ?

Please check the following links.

If you move to an EU/EFTA country (which France is), you may not normally take the obligatory part of the pension insurance in cash, although if you have accrued excess benefits you may. The pension is not transferred, but remains blocked in Switzerland until retirement age.

http://www.englishforum.ch/attachmen...l_brosch_e.pdf

http://www.verbindungsstelle.ch/xml_...on/d51/f61.cfm
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  #168  
Old 10.01.2014, 14:07
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Thankyou Jaudi,

I am not at all used to calculating taxes and figuring outmoney matters. And it is difficult to figure out where to look for information too,despite internet and google.

I was really impressed by the pension officer whom I met today and I have to say he was the first Swiss person who took 40 minutes to answer all my queries and he is under no obligation to do that. He could have give standard answers, but he not only found the forms to fill, but had the translated version for me as well.

My problem is solved, thanks to the officer.

And thank you for your reply, it helped to know the links too,I read portions of them to get to know few things.
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  #169  
Old 15.01.2014, 12:03
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

As others have said, this thread is infinitely valuable and I'm thankful for all the work others have gone to in answering questions.

So here is one more... for people classed as Arbeitnehmer ohne beitragspflichtigen Arbeitgeber (ANOBAG), I've heard contradictory advice regarding their 2nd and 3rd pillars. Some have said that there is no 2nd pillar in this situation, hence the contribution level of the 3rd pillar is increased. Others have said that the employee needs to arrange for a 2nd pillar and the 3rd pillar limit remains the same.

For reference, I live in Basel-Land. Has anyone had experience or know which of these two setups is correct? Thanks in advance for any help.
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  #170  
Old 17.01.2014, 13:40
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Okay, I am able to answer the question now regarding ANOBAG status and 2nd pillar contributions. The AHV office in Canton Basel Land confirmed that an ANOBAG arrangement falls under "voluntary" 2nd pillar contributions. In other words, a 2nd pillar pension can be established, and if not the 3rd pillar contribution level is increased to the lesser of ~33k CHF per year or 20% of gross salary.
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  #171  
Old 28.01.2014, 23:47
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

A question about the 2nd pillar money I pay each month.

If during 2012 I was paying CHF 488 each month for the pension fund and during 2013 I was paying CHF 522, this makes a total of CHF 12,120 that I paid over the 24 month period.

Now, if I quit my job, am I correct that I must expect to have at least twice this amount in my Libre Passage account?
I mean, if my employer is required to pay at least as much as me, shouldn't they have paid at least another CHF 12,120 over the same 24 month period?
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  #172  
Old 29.01.2014, 07:59
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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A question about the 2nd pillar money I pay each month.

If during 2012 I was paying CHF 488 each month for the pension fund and during 2013 I was paying CHF 522, this makes a total of CHF 12,120 that I paid over the 24 month period.

Now, if I quit my job, am I correct that I must expect to have at least twice this amount in my Libre Passage account?
I mean, if my employer is required to pay at least as much as me, shouldn't they have paid at least another CHF 12,120 over the same 24 month period?
It will be less due to legally required disability insurance.
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  #173  
Old 29.01.2014, 08:03
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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It will be less due to legally required disability insurance.
Thanks.
Does it make sense that the total amount is only 10% higher than my own contributions?
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  #174  
Old 29.01.2014, 08:40
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Thanks.
Does it make sense that the total amount is only 10% higher than my own contributions?

You have to see how much insurance you buying, it's quite possible as invalidity insurance paying out 80% of salary for say 25 years is not cheap.
Each year your pension company has to give you a statement.
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  #175  
Old 30.01.2014, 14:58
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

I just noticed my
PK Sparbeitrag
was raised in January, but I didn't cross any age thresholds as mentioned by Dudette (see below).
I'm not sure that this concerns 2nd pillar even.

Anyway, does anyone know if the Pensionkasse % were raised wholesale, or if there are diferent age thresholds?

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Questions on the 2nd pillar pension.

If I understand correct, there are several buckets of contribution and with legally minimum contribution levels:
- 25-34 years of age - 7%
- 35-44 years of age - 10%
- 45-54 years of age - 15%
- 55+ years of age - 18%
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  #176  
Old 14.02.2014, 22:52
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

After returning to the UK from Switzerland do I have to declare the interest on my pillar 3a and the accessible part of my pillar 2 to the UK tax authorities? If not, then what happens when I cash them out and bring them back to the UK? Surely if these accounts can be accessed then they are effectively savings accounts and the interest needs to be declared.

Thanks in advance,
Dave
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  #177  
Old 22.02.2014, 08:47
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Welcome to the Forum Dave.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the UK tax inspector only look at income and capital gains made during the previous complete tax year? And so if you don't bring the money into the UK it will not be taxed.

A note for those taking money out of Switzerland. The money is taxed by the cantonal authority where your pension fund is registered. Canton Argau has the lowest rate, so you can rescue a bit of money by opening an account in Argau and transfering your pension fund there (Tax free) and then when you take the money out of Switzerland it will be taxed (About 12 to 15%). Your bank should be able to advise & help you with the details.
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  #178  
Old 22.02.2014, 08:55
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

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Welcome to the Forum Dave.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the UK tax inspector only look at income and capital gains made during the previous complete tax year? And so if you don't bring the money into the UK it will not be taxed.

A note for those taking money out of Switzerland. The money is taxed by the cantonal authority where your pension fund is registered. Canton Argau has the lowest rate, so you can rescue a bit of money by opening an account in Argau and transfering your pension fund there (Tax free) and then when you take the money out of Switzerland it will be taxed (About 12 to 15%). Your bank should be able to advise & help you with the details.
The lowest tax canton will depend on the value of the fund, 12-15% is quite high on a small pension, possibly higher than the tax saved on contributions for a lower earner
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  #179  
Old 05.03.2014, 16:17
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

I still have a question about pension withdrawal before moving out even though I have read many such threads. I want to ask if possible to get the pension back if you are a citizen of one of the countries with whom Switzerland has an agreement with such as Canada?

Most of what I read here concludes that you can get the money back if you move to a 3rd country with no colateral agreement with Switzerland which I intend to do. However, having just called the compensation office in Geneva, they said that it is NOT possible to get anything back before retirement if you are a citizen of one of these countries. So confusing! Has anyone been able (or knew someone) to get the money back if they are from Canada, USA, Australia..etc?
Thanks
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  #180  
Old 19.03.2014, 18:36
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Re: Swiss pensions consolidated summary

Third Pillar Pension Fund,

My employer only deducts the second pillar fund. If I were to open a third pillar fund towards any savings would the third pillar fund have to be declared for the yearly taxes
For the last ten years all my earnings have gone into the post office and when it's time to declare my taxes i don't seem to be making any savings at all. Even my savings account is taxed where as in France it would not be?!!

Any advice greatly appreciated.
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