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  #1  
Old 07.05.2009, 23:25
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Lived, worked & paid taxes in Germany, now in Switzerland

Hi
Any advice would be much appreciated on double taxation between Germany & Switzerland.
- My husband (Suisse passport with C permit) worked in Germany until Jan 2008 and moved to Switzerland & started work in Feb 2008. However, abmeldung with Germany was done in Jul 2008.
- We got married in Switzerland May 2008 & I continued to stay & work in Germany until Jul 2008. I moved to Switzerland in Aug 2008.
- Taxes 2008
1. We changed our tax class in Germany to "married". As my salary is higher, I took class 3 & he class 5.
2. We included claims for travelling between Germany & Switzerland (May-Jul i.e. after marriage & before I moved to Switzerland).

- We just received a letter from german tax office asking for my husband's Swiss revenue. He called & asked them why and they said he is liable to pay german taxes on what he earns in Switzerland??!!

1. As he already pays Swiss tax on swiss income, why does he need to pay germany for the swiss income?
2. Are tax class changes affecting the entire year's salary or pro-rated from the time you got married?
3. Are there any legal implications if we do not respond to the german tax requests for documents (since taxes have already been deducted up front from the salaries?)

I know the above sounds complicated but we are unwilling to pay extra taxes on top of current as I have not been able to find a job in Switzerland since I moved here!! I am hoping that there were similar cases or someone has some insight for us?

Thanx a lot!
pyt
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  #2  
Old 07.05.2009, 23:56
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Re: Lived, worked & paid taxes in Germany, now in Switzerland

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- We just received a letter from german tax office asking for my husband's Swiss revenue. He called & asked them why and they said he is liable to pay german taxes on what he earns in Switzerland??!!
I can't answer all of your questions, but I know that the German tax office takes the whole year's income into account when calculating the tax rate on the portion of income earned in Germany. I think they are unique in the EU in doing this. It seems unfair, but that's the way it is.
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Old 08.05.2009, 09:33
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Re: Lived, worked & paid taxes in Germany, now in Switzerland

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I can't answer all of your questions, but I know that the German tax office takes the whole year's income into account when calculating the tax rate on the portion of income earned in Germany. I think they are unique in the EU in doing this. It seems unfair, but that's the way it is.
Swiss do the same. If you are here for only part of the year, then the tax rate is determined by either extrapolating the income earned here, or determining what income you had elsewhere.
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Old 08.05.2009, 09:58
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Re: Lived, worked & paid taxes in Germany, now in Switzerland

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Hi
Any advice would be much appreciated on double taxation between Germany & Switzerland.
- My husband (Suisse passport with C permit) worked in Germany until Jan 2008 and moved to Switzerland & started work in Feb 2008. However, abmeldung with Germany was done in Jul 2008.
- We got married in Switzerland May 2008 & I continued to stay & work in Germany until Jul 2008. I moved to Switzerland in Aug 2008.
- Taxes 2008
1. We changed our tax class in Germany to "married". As my salary is higher, I took class 3 & he class 5.
2. We included claims for travelling between Germany & Switzerland (May-Jul i.e. after marriage & before I moved to Switzerland).

- We just received a letter from german tax office asking for my husband's Swiss revenue. He called & asked them why and they said he is liable to pay german taxes on what he earns in Switzerland??!!

1. As he already pays Swiss tax on swiss income, why does he need to pay germany for the swiss income?
2. Are tax class changes affecting the entire year's salary or pro-rated from the time you got married?
3. Are there any legal implications if we do not respond to the german tax requests for documents (since taxes have already been deducted up front from the salaries?)

I know the above sounds complicated but we are unwilling to pay extra taxes on top of current as I have not been able to find a job in Switzerland since I moved here!! I am hoping that there were similar cases or someone has some insight for us?

Thanx a lot!
pyt


this sounds like you should talk to a professional tax advisor....

anyways - I was in the same situation when I moved from Austria to CH during the year, but didn't pay any more Austrian taxes for my Swiss income once I had started working here (even though I was still registered in Austria for another year). Have to say though, that Austrian tax authorities never bothered me and I paid the Swiss quellensteuer anyways.

It is generally true that you need to pay taxes in Germany if you live there and work in CH (you don't need to pay Swiss taxes then). However, the official registration (Meldung bei der Gemeinde) is only one indication of where you live - if you're registered in Germany and in CH at the same time, where you pay your taxes is determined by how you really spend your time. So, I think you should be safe if 1) you really didn't live in Germany anymore during that time and 2) paid taxes in CH already.

Still - go and talk to a tax advisor and have them write a letter on your behalf to the German tax authorities.

EDIT: if the German tax authorities asked for documents you should send them. But also include evidence that you lived in CH during that time and have paid your local taxes here.
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Old 08.05.2009, 10:36
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Re: Lived, worked & paid taxes in Germany, now in Switzerland

From what I remember from old German tax law lectures:

(1) If you spend > 183 days / yr in Germany, you have to declare your world income in Germany and pay Taxes on it. Any income taxes you paid on income in other countries with double taxation agreements will be credited.

(2) If you spend < 183 days / yr in Germany, you only have to declare your German income in Germany and pay Taxes on it. You'd have to declare your world income in whatever your main country of residence is and see what double taxation agreements apply.

If your hubby can prove that he moved to CH in February, case (2) should apply to him. I have no idea how this is applied to couples that live in different countries.

Notice - I am not a lawyer, tax consultant or financal advisor, nor do I play one on TV. This advice is worth every Swiss Franc you paid for it.
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Old 08.05.2009, 11:39
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Re: Lived, worked & paid taxes in Germany, now in Switzerland

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- My husband (Suisse passport with C permit)
Guinness Book material.
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Old 08.05.2009, 18:03
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Re: Lived, worked & paid taxes in Germany, now in Switzerland

Wow, thanx guys! I am always impressed with the recommendations/ suggestions from the people in this forum. You have been very helpful indeed. Anybody has any recommendations on tax advisors that I can use? Should I use someone based in switzerland on in germany?
pyt
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Old 08.05.2009, 18:06
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Re: Lived, worked & paid taxes in Germany, now in Switzerland

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Guinness Book material.
Can't believe I missed that ... now that's a good one.
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Old 08.05.2009, 18:09
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Re: Lived, worked & paid taxes in Germany, now in Switzerland

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Wow, thanx guys! I am always impressed with the recommendations/ suggestions from the people in this forum. You have been very helpful indeed. Anybody has any recommendations on tax advisors that I can use? Should I use someone based in switzerland on in germany?
pyt
I reckon I'd pick someone locally in Geneva and make sure (s)he is familiar with German tax law.
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  #10  
Old 06.02.2014, 17:57
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Re: Lived, worked & paid taxes in Germany, now in Switzerland

Bumping this thread because I am in a similar situation and maybe someone has had the same experience since 2009.

So having moved in 2013 with less than 6 months with salary and residence in Germany, I would have to declare my worldwide income in Switzerland...

Could I then file a tax declaration in Germany with just the German salaries and then do no tax declaration here in Switzerland as I am on (Swiss) Quellensteuer?

See also:
Double Taxation

Maybe the threads can be merged, strictly speaking the other one is general.
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Old 06.02.2014, 18:50
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Re: Lived, worked & paid taxes in Germany, now in Switzerland

Switzerland: You moved to Switzerland in 2013. Since you are staying for more than 90 days (swiss rules), you have to declare all your worldwide income, but only income generated after you arrived here. They don't care / tax income before you moved. So tax at source is all you need (unless earning over 120k)


Germany: You need to check the German rules. If it's the standard OECD rules then: if you lived in DE for less than 6 months, in 2013 you are a non-resident in Germany and have to declare your german income only. If you lived in DE for over 6 months in 2013, you are a tax resident and have to declare your worldwide income. Declaring it doesn't mean you will also pay taxes on it. In some cases (ie countries) you will have to pay the difference of DE tax - CH tax. In others you pay nothing. In others you dont even have to declare the income after you left. It's a purely german tax issue, what rules they have chosen to use. It also depends on the type of income: earned income (ie, salary) in sometimes treated more generously, so they take into account where (physically) the work was done; and they dont tax at all if work was done in a location abroad.


PS: Probably irrelevant in your case, but double taxation agreements don't mean you cannot pay tax in 2 countries for the same income, just that the tax you may have to pay in both countries will be somehow reduced.
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  #12  
Old 06.02.2014, 20:22
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Re: Lived, worked & paid taxes in Germany, now in Switzerland

Had a similar situation in 2009, half a year in Germany, half a year in Switzerland. Paid my german taxes for the first half and the second half in Switzerland. Disadvantage though was that they have a different way of calculating in Switzerland so I had to pay more (this was explained earlier).
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Old 07.02.2014, 11:26
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Re: Lived, worked & paid taxes in Germany, now in Switzerland

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Switzerland: You moved to Switzerland in 2013. Since you are staying for more than 90 days (swiss rules), you have to declare all your worldwide income, but only income generated after you arrived here. They don't care / tax income before you moved. So tax at source is all you need (unless earning over 120k)
Thank goodness for that, at least. I'm on (Swiss) Quellensteuer and it is nice if I don't need to do anything on this side, as my German salary stopped before I came here.

Roegner: Can you clarify? Did you stay over 183 days in Germany for that year?
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