Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 21.02.2015, 20:06
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 22,869
Groaned at 544 Times in 416 Posts
Thanked 25,381 Times in 11,638 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Living in Switzerland, working for UK Co.

Naps has managed to make things work wonderfully for her, I believe- sadly no longer active on this Forum as she has become so integrated into Romandie life.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 21.02.2015, 20:16
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 8,739
Groaned at 50 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 13,533 Times in 6,275 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Living in Switzerland, working for UK Co.

Quote:
View Post
...In terms of tax liability I would need to file a tax return in the UK, then fill in a CH tax return, as UK taxes are higher as the last poster mentioned, which is clear. And then file a U.S. return, FBAR, etc. according to FATCA....

If anyone knows good international tax specialist in Geneva that would be great as well.
FTFY. Yes, I highly recommend hiring a professional to help you sort through this complicated tax situation!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 14.03.2019, 23:02
szhjcn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Affoltern am Albis, Zurich
Posts: 1,686
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 351 Times in 280 Posts
szhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of many
Re: Living in Switzerland, working for UK Co.

Might have to work in the UK for a while, on a contract (struggling to find work here).

Have UK and Swiss Passport

As it's a UK contract, they will insist on either having a UK Limited company (which I used to have, and could setup again) or go through an Umbrella company. The problem with an umbrella company is expenses are difficult to claim, so flights, accommodation (hotels) and meals could be difficult to claim, plus all income is taxed as source.

Would hope to be able to do 4 days in UK and one day working from home CH.

Ideally I would like to invoice from a Swiss Company, and pay all taxes and deductions here. Will discuss this with the agency should I reach this point.

Any experience or advice gratefully received.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 17.03.2019, 18:55
telandy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 2,019
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 575 Times in 363 Posts
telandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputation
Re: Living in Switzerland, working for UK Co.

This has come from a mate, who is no longer a member of EF



Slightly different. The client wants a UK based contract. So umbrella/ltd company must be in UK. Will result in tax at source if done that way and no way around it.


I looked at this and frankly UK tax at source destroys any value and its not workable. Also, it defeats the real need of being employed by a Swiss company, paying AHV/BVG etc to qualify for RAV support when needed.


I use Swiss based umbrella and all contracts/invoices/expenses etc done through them. They invoice in GBP so customer is satisfied. Switzerland allows the expense/deductions and then tax declaration later... makes it so much easier.


I recommend Helvetic Payroll SA (talk to Mike Mansell).


I make sure i spend less than 90 days in UK (5 days per month around 60 or so) for the full year.
When i ‘lived’ there I limited it to 3 weeks pcm over 6 months. Roughly 6x19 days/114 days. There’s some allowance for visiting children but never used that claim. Way under the 180 day black and white rule so the ‘tests’ come into play.


Under double tax treaty proof tests i was still taxable/domiciled etc in Switzerland. Which is the aim of course.


If his client will accept invoices in GBP from Swiss umbrella company i would recommend it. At very least allows them to sort tax in arrears.


The OP is working in the UK on a Swiss contract.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank telandy for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 17.03.2019, 19:15
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,570
Groaned at 279 Times in 228 Posts
Thanked 14,903 Times in 8,298 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Living in Switzerland, working for UK Co.

Quote:
View Post
This has come from a mate, who is no longer a member of EF



Slightly different. The client wants a UK based contract. So umbrella/ltd company must be in UK. Will result in tax at source if done that way and no way around it.


I looked at this and frankly UK tax at source destroys any value and its not workable. Also, it defeats the real need of being employed by a Swiss company, paying AHV/BVG etc to qualify for RAV support when needed.


I use Swiss based umbrella and all contracts/invoices/expenses etc done through them. They invoice in GBP so customer is satisfied. Switzerland allows the expense/deductions and then tax declaration later... makes it so much easier.


I recommend Helvetic Payroll SA (talk to Mike Mansell).


I make sure i spend less than 90 days in UK (5 days per month around 60 or so) for the full year.
When i ‘lived’ there I limited it to 3 weeks pcm over 6 months. Roughly 6x19 days/114 days. There’s some allowance for visiting children but never used that claim. Way under the 180 day black and white rule so the ‘tests’ come into play.


Under double tax treaty proof tests i was still taxable/domiciled etc in Switzerland. Which is the aim of course.


If his client will accept invoices in GBP from Swiss umbrella company i would recommend it. At very least allows them to sort tax in arrears.


The OP is working in the UK on a Swiss contract.
Statutory definition of UK residence is very clear, it depends on connections to the UK. There is no additional allowance for visiting children, you can spend less days in the UK if your wife or Children are in the UK Spend 114 days in the UK 2 years running , working for more than 40 days & having a home would make you UK resident. If you had been resident in the last 3 years & with 3 ties you would need to be in the UK less than 45 days.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...nal_078500.pdf
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 18.03.2019, 13:04
szhjcn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Affoltern am Albis, Zurich
Posts: 1,686
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 351 Times in 280 Posts
szhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of many
Re: Living in Switzerland, working for UK Co.

Quote:
View Post
Statutory definition of UK residence is very clear, it depends on connections to the UK. There is no additional allowance for visiting children, you can spend less days in the UK if your wife or Children are in the UK Spend 114 days in the UK 2 years running , working for more than 40 days & having a home would make you UK resident. If you had been resident in the last 3 years & with 3 ties you would need to be in the UK less than 45 days.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...nal_078500.pdf
Hi, Thanks for the feedback FatManFilms & TelAndy.
  • I have not lived in the U.K. for over 20 years
  • I do not have any property in the U.K. (Sold long time ago)
  • I hope to work 4 days a week in the U.K. office and one day at home (Switzerland), so based on an average of 21 days a month, 16 a month in the U.K. x12 = 192 days, - 16 (4x4 days) working days for Holiday (hopefully more), then 176 days in U.K.
  • I used to have a Ltd company in the U.K. and could setup one again, I would not use an Umbrella company as mentioned this means tax at source, limited options to deduct expenses... But not sure if this changes the Residency status, the company address would be the accountants address in the U.K.
  • It might be possible to invoice from here (have not reached that stage of discussions yet) which would be the best option so I can make contributions here and accumalate RAV time etc..
  • I would either be staying in Hotels, or maybe find a bed-sit for 4-5 nights a week. Bed-sit would be the preferred option so I can leave some things in the UK and travel with just hand luggage (and don't want to have to buy Shampoo and toothpast each visit..)
  • They do have a company here, which might be an option if I don't have to go through the U.K. agent. This would then make the setup a lot easier

If I get it and can invoice from here, will checkout Helvetic, also have a couple of good contacts in Agencies here and a friend who runs his own payroll firm https://www.accurity.ch/

My RAV days are running out (only worked 6 months in the last 24) so need to find something soon, and this gig in the U.K. could be a good option for me.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 18.03.2019, 13:14
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,570
Groaned at 279 Times in 228 Posts
Thanked 14,903 Times in 8,298 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Living in Switzerland, working for UK Co.

Quote:
View Post
Hi, Thanks for the feedback FatManFilms & TelAndy.
  • I have not lived in the U.K. for over 20 years
  • I do not have any property in the U.K. (Sold long time ago)
  • I hope to work 4 days a week in the U.K. office and one day at home (Switzerland), so based on an average of 21 days a month, 16 a month in the U.K. x12 = 192 days, - 16 (4x4 days) working days for Holiday (hopefully more), then 176 days in U.K.
  • I used to have a Ltd company in the U.K. and could setup one again, I would not use an Umbrella company as mentioned this means tax at source, limited options to deduct expenses... But not sure if this changes the Residency status, the company address would be the accountants address in the U.K.
  • It might be possible to invoice from here (have not reached that stage of discussions yet) which would be the best option so I can make contributions here and accumalate RAV time etc..
  • I would either be staying in Hotels, or maybe find a bed-sit for 4-5 nights a week. Bed-sit would be the preferred option so I can leave some things in the UK and travel with just hand luggage (and don't want to have to buy Shampoo and toothpast each visit..)
  • They do have a company here, which might be an option if I don't have to go through the U.K. agent. This would then make the setup a lot easier

If I get it and can invoice from here, will checkout Helvetic, also have a couple of good contacts in Agencies here and a friend who runs his own payroll firm https://www.accurity.ch/

My RAV days are running out (only worked 6 months in the last 24) so need to find something soon, and this gig in the U.K. could be a good option for me.
You will definitely be UK tax resident. In year 1 you will have 2 connections more than 40 days work & a home assuming you rent somewhere to stay.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 18.03.2019, 13:37
szhjcn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Affoltern am Albis, Zurich
Posts: 1,686
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 351 Times in 280 Posts
szhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of many
Re: Living in Switzerland, working for UK Co.

Quote:
View Post
You will definitely be UK tax resident. In year 1 you will have 2 connections more than 40 days work & a home assuming you rent somewhere to stay.
Hmm not sure about that:

https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...index.html#a11

2 A natural person who is a resident of Switzerland must be exempt from United Kingdom tax on profits or remuneration that he derives from personal services (including the exercise of a profession) rendered in the United Kingdom. United in a fiscal year, provided that:

at.
that she has been in the United Kingdom for one or more periods not exceeding in the aggregate 183 days in the relevant year; and
b.
than,
(I)
in the case of a mandate on a board of directors or employment, the services are rendered in the name or on behalf of a resident of Switzerland,
(Ii)
in other cases, the person concerned does not have an office or other permanent establishment in the United Kingdom; and
c.
that profits or remunerations are subject to Swiss tax.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 18.03.2019, 13:51
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,570
Groaned at 279 Times in 228 Posts
Thanked 14,903 Times in 8,298 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Living in Switzerland, working for UK Co.

Quote:
View Post
Hmm not sure about that:

https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...index.html#a11

2 A natural person who is a resident of Switzerland must be exempt from United Kingdom tax on profits or remuneration that he derives from personal services (including the exercise of a profession) rendered in the United Kingdom. United in a fiscal year, provided that:

at.
that she has been in the United Kingdom for one or more periods not exceeding in the aggregate 183 days in the relevant year; and
b.
than,
(I)
in the case of a mandate on a board of directors or employment, the services are rendered in the name or on behalf of a resident of Switzerland,
(Ii)
in other cases, the person concerned does not have an office or other permanent establishment in the United Kingdom; and
c.
that profits or remunerations are subject to Swiss tax.
You are looking at a 1955 agreement, since then the Statutory definition of UK residence has been adopted, there is no way you will get away with it. Year 1 you can get away with less than 120 days, year 2 less than 90 days.

Remember Uk tax is self assessment, fines & interest are very high if you fail to report & it's a criminal offence in the UK unlike in CH.

Be aware of IR 35 in relation the service company. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-em...status-for-tax
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 18.03.2019, 14:21
szhjcn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Affoltern am Albis, Zurich
Posts: 1,686
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 351 Times in 280 Posts
szhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of many
Re: Living in Switzerland, working for UK Co.

Quote:
View Post
You are looking at a 1955 agreement, since then the Statutory definition of UK residence has been adopted, there is no way you will get away with it. Year 1 you can get away with less than 120 days, year 2 less than 90 days.

Remember Uk tax is self assessment, fines & interest are very high if you fail to report & it's a criminal offence in the UK unlike in CH.

Be aware of IR 35 in relation the service company. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-em...status-for-tax
OK, thanks. And if I remember correctly they count a tax year as being from April to April?
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 18.03.2019, 15:04
telandy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 2,019
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 575 Times in 363 Posts
telandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputationtelandy has an excellent reputation
Re: Living in Switzerland, working for UK Co.

Quote:
View Post
OK, thanks. And if I remember correctly they count a tax year as being from April to April?
UK tax year 6th April -5th April
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank telandy for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
freelance




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the Cost of living in Zurich? arielt111 Daily life 141 30.11.2017 16:51
Resources for those living in or moving to CH... Carmen Other/general 25 01.04.2011 09:59
Expats in Zurich...full of Swissies? Lob Other/general 36 10.01.2008 10:40
Moving from Australia to Switzerland, Cost of living, etc gideonal Other/general 4 05.01.2007 11:12


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0