Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #421  
Old 16.11.2011, 22:42
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 15,587
Groaned at 304 Times in 204 Posts
Thanked 19,871 Times in 8,375 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
I don't think I would trust bits of paper from Bullion Vault either.
It might not even be an issue of Bullion Vault going bust (though I would not trust them) but a government intervention of some kind.

The safest thing for the time being is a safe deposit box in Switzerland with gold bars in it and even with the loss of interest and cost of the safe deposit box will still perform better even with the price of gold at the moment.
agreed. you could still lose through outright fraud/theft or through government confiscation - when i had BV gold, i had it stored in the swiss vaults.

gold held through BV is meant to be through a bailor/bailee arrangement and so in theory you can't lose out from BV going bust.
Reply With Quote
  #422  
Old 17.11.2011, 09:59
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,381
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,090 Times in 12,615 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

According to the FT today; central bank purchasing of gold is at a 40 year high.
In the last quarter the central banks bought 148 tons on a net basis.
They said the last time central banks were net gold buyers was in 1988.
Reply With Quote
  #423  
Old 17.11.2011, 10:03
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,373
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
According to the FT today; central bank purchasing of gold is at a 40 year high.
In the last quarter the central banks bought 148 tons on a net basis.
They said the last time central banks were net gold buyers was in 1988.
Now thats a major sell signal if ever I saw one!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #424  
Old 23.11.2011, 13:20
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,381
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,090 Times in 12,615 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Now thats a major sell signal if ever I saw one!
Here is another sell signal.
Apparently it is claimed that the EU is trying to persuade the various national european central banks to sell their gold to support the euro!!
I suspect that these banks will not react with enthusiasm
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #425  
Old 23.11.2011, 13:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,160
Groaned at 80 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 4,435 Times in 2,390 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Here is another sell signal.
Apparently it is claimed that the EU is trying to persuade the various national european central banks to sell their gold to support the euro!!
I suspect that these banks will not react with enthusiasm
If that would turn out to be true, it would be the equivalent of a garage-sale and a sign of absolute desperation (IMO).
What else is there to sell, after the gold is gone?
The souls, consciences and common sense of the politicians were sold long ago anyway...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #426  
Old 23.11.2011, 15:19
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bern
Posts: 667
Groaned at 19 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 294 Posts
spalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Here is another sell signal.
Apparently it is claimed that the EU is trying to persuade the various national european central banks to sell their gold to support the euro!!
I suspect that these banks will not react with enthusiasm
Looks like the big boys behind the curtain are trying to get their hands onto some more gold at cheap prices. Bet the Chinese will be frantic to get in on a bit of the action as well.
Reply With Quote
  #427  
Old 23.11.2011, 23:38
Lex's Avatar
Lex Lex is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zug
Posts: 312
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 257 Times in 138 Posts
Lex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
The safest thing for the time being is a safe deposit box in Switzerland with gold bars in it and even with the loss of interest and cost of the safe deposit box will still perform better even with the price of gold at the moment.
Even safety deposit boxes carry some amount of risk. If its in a bank safety deposit box, then you have counter party risk of the bank, even with insurance, as thats often provided by the bank itself. Of course being Switzerland, its still safer here than anywhere else.

Also, not that it may be important, but back in 1933 with the gold confiscation act in the US, if someone would have a safety deposit box in a bank, none would be opened without the presence of an IRS agent there also.

As this sovereign debt crisis moves to put pressure on European Banks which haven't been recapitalized yet, it could lead to large scale selling of everything including gold where profits would be be taken to soften redemptions. Im keeping an eye on that too.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Lex for this useful post:
  #428  
Old 24.11.2011, 01:16
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: interlaken
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
dconaty has no particular reputation at present
Re: Gold Buying

As this sovereign debt crisis moves to put pressure on European Banks which haven't been recapitalized yet, it could lead to large scale selling of everything including gold where profits would be be taken to soften redemptions. Im keeping an eye on that too.[/QUOTE]

This is a fair point which I had been holding out for when gold went to $1550 recently. Now it is dropping down from $1800 I have decided to get involved again. A viewpoint that I have been reading is that there could be some short term pain before it rockets and if so its a good time to average down, in order not to miss bottom.

What annoys me is that as the price of gold drops the weak euro keeps the Chf price the same. Does anyone have any solution to this?
Reply With Quote
  #429  
Old 24.11.2011, 01:17
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: interlaken
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
dconaty has no particular reputation at present
Re: Gold Buying

not sure why my quote didn't come out looking like a quote above, sorry lex, wasn't trying to rob your words....
Reply With Quote
  #430  
Old 24.11.2011, 10:34
Lex's Avatar
Lex Lex is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zug
Posts: 312
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 257 Times in 138 Posts
Lex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
not sure why my quote didn't come out looking like a quote above, sorry lex, wasn't trying to rob your words....
No problem, looks like it was missing the front bit when you took the quote

Quote:
View Post
What annoys me is that as the price of gold drops the weak euro keeps the Chf price the same. Does anyone have any solution to this?
Well this is actually the reason why you have gold in the first place I would imagine, to protect your savings from a debased/manipulated currency - in this case the CHF,EUR. Even though the US$/oz price is coming down, its the weakness of the CHF that is relatively holding the gold price in CHF. So there is no solution, there is only the rationale of why you want to buy gold in the first place. If your doing it to protect your savings, then price shouldn't really be the only concern when considering to buy. If the SNB intervenes further to place a 1.35 level on the franc to EUR then you know what will happen to the gold price in francs, pretty much similar as the last time.

Before the SNB's intervention, if there was to be a big sell off of everything, I would think gold in US$ would come down and the swiss franc would increase (because of the safe haven status) pushing the CHF/oz down even more. As the 1.20 level between the CHF/EUR is in place, that is no longer the case, so it further supports the CHF gold price at approx current levels. Previous to the SNB intervention I was about even/even to hold gold and swiss franc, now however, its a little more skewed to gold. Just my 2 reps.

Disclaimer: This is a public internet forum, so do your own research
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Lex for this useful post:
  #431  
Old 24.11.2011, 12:27
Amaras's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Armenia
Posts: 128
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 18 Times in 16 Posts
Amaras has earned some respectAmaras has earned some respect
Re: Gold Buying



Last time gold used for investment exceeded gold used for jewelry was 1980 — the year the last gold bubble burst.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Amaras for this useful post:
  #432  
Old 24.11.2011, 15:04
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: interlaken
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
dconaty has no particular reputation at present
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
No problem, looks like it was missing the front bit when you took the quote



Well this is actually the reason why you have gold in the first place I would imagine, to protect your savings from a debased/manipulated currency - in this case the CHF,EUR. Even though the US$/oz price is coming down, its the weakness of the CHF that is relatively holding the gold price in CHF. So there is no solution, there is only the rationale of why you want to buy gold in the first place. If your doing it to protect your savings, then price shouldn't really be the only concern when considering to buy. If the SNB intervenes further to place a 1.35 level on the franc to EUR then you know what will happen to the gold price in francs, pretty much similar as the last time.

Before the SNB's intervention, if there was to be a big sell off of everything, I would think gold in US$ would come down and the swiss franc would increase (because of the safe haven status) pushing the CHF/oz down even more. As the 1.20 level between the CHF/EUR is in place, that is no longer the case, so it further supports the CHF gold price at approx current levels. Previous to the SNB intervention I was about even/even to hold gold and swiss franc, now however, its a little more skewed to gold. Just my 2 reps.

Disclaimer: This is a public internet forum, so do your own research
Thanks that does help to paint a clearer picture. If you were to look at gold as a way of increasing your capital would the same rationale apply?

I bought into gold about 10 days before the chf was pegged. It went down steadily until the peg. When it shot up I sold as quick as possible as I realized I didn't have a clue what was going on......lucky timing though.

Now I am just dipping my toes again.....still clueless of course!
Reply With Quote
  #433  
Old 24.11.2011, 15:09
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 258
Groaned at 59 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 158 Times in 92 Posts
profetas is considered unworthyprofetas is considered unworthyprofetas is considered unworthyprofetas is considered unworthy
Re: Gold Buying

Can someone travel with gold bars? Is there insurance for it?
Reply With Quote
  #434  
Old 24.11.2011, 20:54
Lex's Avatar
Lex Lex is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zug
Posts: 312
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 257 Times in 138 Posts
Lex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Thanks that does help to paint a clearer picture. If you were to look at gold as a way of increasing your capital would the same rationale apply?

I bought into gold about 10 days before the chf was pegged. It went down steadily until the peg. When it shot up I sold as quick as possible as I realized I didn't have a clue what was going on......lucky timing though.

Now I am just dipping my toes again.....still clueless of course!
I look at gold only in terms of 'preserving' capital. I dont expect to get either rich from buying it nor to lose my shirt (except in my ETF's if i dont get out soon enough ). Also I think we are purchasing it for different reasons. I dont intent to trade it as such, Im looking at a more medium/long term position, hence daily market activity doesnt stress me, if it gets cheaper I may/may not buy more. Depends.

I also dont intend to hold forever though. When governments come back to their senses and stop creating credit to supplement their deficits and encourage the building of savings, I will be the first to sell. I think we are far from that time still unfortunately
Reply With Quote
  #435  
Old 25.11.2011, 14:48
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: interlaken
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
dconaty has no particular reputation at present
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Previous to the SNB intervention I was about even/even to hold gold and swiss franc, now however, its a little more skewed to gold. Just my 2 reps.

Disclaimer: This is a public internet forum, so do your own research
Hi, what do you think will happen to your chf when the euro goes south?
Reply With Quote
  #436  
Old 25.11.2011, 16:20
Lex's Avatar
Lex Lex is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zug
Posts: 312
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 257 Times in 138 Posts
Lex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Hi, what do you think will happen to your chf when the euro goes south?
Technically the CHF is pegged to EUR, so goes with it. If they alter the peg in any way upwards, then even more so.

Article below re UBS expecting more intervention from SNB.

http://www.cash.ch/news/front/ubs_er...er-1105134-449
Reply With Quote
  #437  
Old 25.11.2011, 16:35
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,381
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,090 Times in 12,615 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Technically the CHF is pegged to EUR, so goes with it. If they alter the peg in any way upwards, then even more so.

Article below re UBS expecting more intervention from SNB.

http://www.cash.ch/news/front/ubs_er...er-1105134-449
Maybe but I don't think I will speculate in euros in the next days; not when everybody is making disaster recovery plans about what to do if the euro should disappear as a currency .
Reply With Quote
  #438  
Old 25.11.2011, 16:43
Lex's Avatar
Lex Lex is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zug
Posts: 312
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 257 Times in 138 Posts
Lex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Maybe but I don't think I will speculate in euros in the next days; not when everybody is making disaster recovery plans about what to do if the euro should disappear as a currency .
Hey, your not the only one thinking that way. Remember about 2-3 weeks ago when the floor between the CHF and EUR were discussed - well at the time the currency ran straight up to 1.25 or thereabouts now its again at 1.235 and moving up - which just proves the markets have no idea about where things are headed. Hence why I will will treat currencies pretty much all the same, just some are slightly better than others.
Reply With Quote
  #439  
Old 25.11.2011, 16:46
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 66
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 68 Times in 36 Posts
atwzurich has earned some respectatwzurich has earned some respect
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Technically the CHF is pegged to EUR, so goes with it. If they alter the peg in any way upwards, then even more so.
Isn't it a floor as opposed to a peg? CHF doesn't track the euro indefinitely, the SNB just stops it going past a certain level.

If the EUR disappears, so does the need for the floor. Although if it came to that, I imagine governments would implement capital controls pretty darn quick...
Reply With Quote
  #440  
Old 25.11.2011, 16:54
Lex's Avatar
Lex Lex is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zug
Posts: 312
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 257 Times in 138 Posts
Lex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond reputeLex has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Isn't it a floor as opposed to a peg? CHF doesn't track the euro indefinitely, the SNB just stops it going past a certain level.

If the EUR disappears, so does the need for the floor. Although if it came to that, I imagine governments would implement capital controls pretty darn quick...
Yes, its a floor.

The thread, and the 'currency' threads use peg, floor, so I interchange as well. To me it may as well be a PEG, I was forward looking for franc to strengthen until the SNB came along.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gold, swiss franc




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GOLD - Int'l recognition of swiss gold coins? Uncle GroOve Finance/banking/taxation 19 19.08.2011 18:04
Buying gold in Zurich Tiger Other/general 27 07.11.2010 14:21


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0