Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #441  
Old 25.11.2011, 20:52
DavidSJC's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Zürich
Posts: 118
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 49 Times in 20 Posts
DavidSJC has earned some respectDavidSJC has earned some respect
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Also, not that it may be important, but back in 1933 with the gold confiscation act in the US, if someone would have a safety deposit box in a bank, none would be opened without the presence of an IRS agent there also.
It is because of this kind of stupidity that I moved from the US to Switzerland.
The Swiss have a long tradition of treating gold as currency. This is safest
place in the world to store gold.

DavidSJC
Reply With Quote
  #442  
Old 26.11.2011, 11:33
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,567
Groaned at 472 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,378 Times in 10,229 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
It is because of this kind of stupidity that I moved from the US to Switzerland.
The Swiss have a long tradition of treating gold as currency. This is safest
place in the world to store gold.

DavidSJC
You moved in 1933?
Reply With Quote
  #443  
Old 27.11.2011, 15:21
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: interlaken
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
dconaty has no particular reputation at present
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Technically the CHF is pegged to EUR, so goes with it. If they alter the peg in any way upwards, then even more so.

Article below re UBS expecting more intervention from SNB.

http://www.cash.ch/news/front/ubs_er...er-1105134-449
Hi, the article is no longer available online. Do they really expect the SNB to go further with the Euro?

I am enjoying the weekends lack of market news. It seems like the monday on is just crazy.
Reply With Quote
  #444  
Old 02.12.2011, 08:10
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baselland
Posts: 665
Groaned at 19 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 294 Posts
spalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Hi, the article is no longer available online. Do they really expect the SNB to go further with the Euro?

I am enjoying the weekends lack of market news. It seems like the monday on is just crazy.
Had to read that so did a search....
http://www.cash.ch/news/topnews/ubs_...er-1105134-771
Reply With Quote
  #445  
Old 12.12.2011, 23:26
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,567
Groaned at 472 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,378 Times in 10,229 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote "Chinese gold imports from Hong Kong, a proxy for overseas buying, hit a fresh record high in October and accounted for more than one-quarter of global demand.
Data from the Hong Kong government showed that China imported 85.7 tonnes of gold via Hong Kong in October, up 50 per cent from the previous month and up more than 40 times from October last year. It is the fourth consecutive month that China’s gold flows through Hong Kong have hit new highs"

China is the world's largest gold producer & now the largest gold importer
Reply With Quote
  #446  
Old 27.07.2012, 15:22
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,567
Groaned at 472 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,378 Times in 10,229 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
With huge falls in the price of gold where are the 'bulls' that have been talking up the price for so long?
Gold in CHF is currently within 4% of the all time maximum.
Reply With Quote
  #447  
Old 27.07.2012, 15:42
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Gold in CHF is currently within 4% of the all time maximum.
But the CHF is undervalued today because of the peg with the EUR.

In any event, buying and storing physical gold in large reinforced safe boxes at home is probably an attractive option for US citizens residing in Switzerland.

It doesn't have to be reported in FATCA or FBAR as there is no account with an FFI involved plus your assets will be appreciating constantly over the major debasing fiat currencies. Then when you acquire a Swiss Passport, you can renounce the US one and realize gains afterwards .
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #448  
Old 27.07.2012, 23:14
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,975
Groaned at 448 Times in 342 Posts
Thanked 22,199 Times in 11,512 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
But the CHF is undervalued today because of the peg with the EUR.
.
The peg is costing 45k per day per resident, the chf will be worth a great deal less if the peg is not dumped asap.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #449  
Old 28.07.2012, 09:27
p42's Avatar
p42 p42 is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kanton Schwyz.
Posts: 820
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 417 Times in 267 Posts
p42 has an excellent reputationp42 has an excellent reputationp42 has an excellent reputationp42 has an excellent reputation
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
The peg is costing 45k per day per resident, the chf will be worth a great deal less if the peg is not dumped asap.
That is a fantastic amount. It must be benefitting some of us though. For example, those of us that have bought a house using pension funds and a larger mortgage?
Reply With Quote
  #450  
Old 29.07.2012, 14:24
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baselland
Posts: 665
Groaned at 19 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 464 Times in 294 Posts
spalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

I recently read in Jim Willie's latest article that a very large amount of "Allocated Gold" has been raided and sold off by banks. And not just anywhere but also here in Switzerland, i.e. he claims there are 'major lawsuits in Switzerland' though to date the 'press has kept a lid on the story'.

BANKER BRUSHFIRES RISK JUMPS
The article is long and the bit I am referring to comes under this heading:
ALLOCATED GOLD & 40 THOUSAND METRIC TONS SHORT

This is one of several instances where I have seen this subject or similar being mentioned on alternative Internet media. But as said in the article to date there is nothing in the mainstream media.

If it really is so then when this story does hit the press gold will suddenly become very scarce.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank spalebärg for this useful post:
  #451  
Old 29.07.2012, 14:57
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,430
Groaned at 281 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 18,156 Times in 7,618 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
That is a fantastic amount. It must be benefitting some of us though. For example, those of us that have bought a house using pension funds and a larger mortgage?
it is benefiting those buying CHF at low prices. imagine the SNB had the power to force you to sell you house, car, and any other property at 70% of its market value. the buyers have a good deal, the sellers have a terrible deal.

by selling CHF at a reduced price, foreign currency holders are effectively able to buy CHF denominated assets for a lower price at the expense of CHF holders.
Reply With Quote
  #452  
Old 29.07.2012, 15:34
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
it is benefiting those buying CHF at low prices. imagine the SNB had the power to force you to sell you house, car, and any other property at 70% of its market value. the buyers have a good deal, the sellers have a terrible deal.

by selling CHF at a reduced price, foreign currency holders are effectively able to buy CHF denominated assets for a lower price at the expense of CHF holders.
CHF denominated assets (particularly real estate) are already super high that I don't think the peg would make that much of a difference for the average Joe.

The most worrying collateral damage of a currency peg is inflation because of increased consumption resulting from a larger money supply while not being able to correspondingly expand the supply of goods and services. Swiss inflation for 2011 was 0.2% and there is talk we may see deflation. This indicates that the new CHFs being printed to buy foreign currency is either be lent back to the Swiss Government (which is awesome for the country's fiscal situation considering bond yields are between negative and zero), just sitting dormant in Swiss Bank accounts or going into purchasing Swiss real estate (average Joe in Switzerland rents and lower interest rates actually benefit him since rent goes down). Essentially, newly printed CHFs are being helf by foreigners for safe haven purposes, not for a massive shopping spree. Once the peg ends, the foreign currencies the Swiss government purchased will be used to buy back these CHFs printed due to the peg and the Swiss government will simply remove them from circulation, thus correspondingly decreasing the money supply.
Reply With Quote
  #453  
Old 29.07.2012, 15:43
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,430
Groaned at 281 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 18,156 Times in 7,618 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
CHF denominated assets (particularly real estate) are already super high that I don't think the peg would make that much of a difference for the average Joe.

The most worrying collateral damage of a currency peg is inflation because of increased consumption resulting from a larger money supply while not being able to correspondingly expand the supply of goods and services. Swiss inflation for 2011 was 0.2% and there is talk we may see deflation. This indicates that the new CHFs being printed to buy foreign currency is either be lent back to the Swiss Government (which is awesome for the country's fiscal situation considering bond yields are between negative and zero), just sitting dormant in Swiss Bank accounts or going into purchasing Swiss real estate (average Joe in Switzerland rents and lower interest rates actually benefit him since rent goes down). Essentially, newly printed CHFs are being helf by foreigners for safe haven purposes, not for a massive shopping spree. Once the peg ends, the foreign currencies the Swiss government purchased will be used to buy back these CHFs printed due to the peg and the Swiss government will simply remove them from circulation, thus correspondingly decreasing the money supply.
the perfect scenario you outlined will happen only if the Eurozone economies recover and the Euro value increases to more that 1.2 - given that practically all of the Eurozone countries are about to go bankrupt, this doesn't really appear to be a likely scenario at all.
Reply With Quote
  #454  
Old 29.07.2012, 15:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
I recently read in Jim Willie's latest article that a very large amount of "Allocated Gold" has been raided and sold off by banks. And not just anywhere but also here in Switzerland, i.e. he claims there are 'major lawsuits in Switzerland' though to date the 'press has kept a lid on the story'.

BANKER BRUSHFIRES RISK JUMPS
The article is long and the bit I am referring to comes under this heading:
ALLOCATED GOLD & 40 THOUSAND METRIC TONS SHORT

This is one of several instances where I have seen this subject or similar being mentioned on alternative Internet media. But as said in the article to date there is nothing in the mainstream media.

If it really is so then when this story does hit the press gold will suddenly become very scarce.
Gold will ultimately replace the US dollar as the world's premier reserve currency/asset class.

As a matter of fact, Central Banks have registered their most intense gold buying spree since the 1960s; could be a game of musical chairs as governments continue to debase their fiat currencies to solve their fiscal problems.

I would hold on to Swiss Francs, its highly unlikely governments will conduct commerce in physical gold, instead they will conduct it in the most convertible and trustworthy fiat currency. Back in the 1930s and 1940s it was the Swiss Franc (hence why the Swiss were able to purchase large amounts of gold just by printing CHF). This ensured Switzerland's economic well-being and neutrality in World War II as most of Germany's trade with neutral countries was done via Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #455  
Old 29.07.2012, 16:11
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
the perfect scenario you outlined will happen only if the Eurozone economies recover and the Euro value increases to more that 1.2 - given that practically all of the Eurozone countries are about to go bankrupt, this doesn't really appear to be a likely scenario at all.
It would also depend on what the Swiss government is doing with its newly acquired Euros; they could be buying negative yield German bonds or, what I would probably do, Gold. If it would be going into PIIGS debt, that would be worrying as there could be substantial losses during unwinding to cover the CHF they printed.

The Eurozone will be much smaller and will mostly cover solvent countries within the next few years. The smaller and more solvent it becomes, the stronger the Euro will become and the less will be the need for a EUR-CHF peg. If Germany dumps the Euro, however, the new Dmark will be Europe's premier safe-haven currency and the Swiss will definitely not need a peg anymore.

Ideally I would only foresee the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Finland, Luxembourg and maybe Estonia (almost no debt) to remain in the Eurozone (who knows Sweden may join in if their strong currency kills them; Denmark is de facto an Eurozone country due to its mandated peg under ERM II).

Realistically, some insolvent countries may remain in the Eurozone:

-France, Belgium, Italy (we can say Italy has an industry if we can still call FIAT a car), Slovakia and Slovenia may remain in the Eurozone for political, historical and economic reasons.

-Portugal may be forgiven and stay in the Eurozone (at least they have shown seriousness and maturity in trying to solve their mess).

-Ireland should leave and maybe adopt the British Pound.

-Spain should definitely leave; an economy with no industry, overpriced real estate and overpriced tourism with 25% unemployment is hopeless.

-Greece, absolutely should leave; shouldn't have joined in the first place.
Reply With Quote
  #456  
Old 29.07.2012, 17:37
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,430
Groaned at 281 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 18,156 Times in 7,618 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
It would also depend on what the Swiss government is doing with its newly acquired Euros; they could be buying negative yield German bonds or, what I would probably do, Gold. If it would be going into PIIGS debt, that would be worrying as there could be substantial losses during unwinding to cover the CHF they printed.

The Eurozone will be much smaller and will mostly cover solvent countries within the next few years. The smaller and more solvent it becomes, the stronger the Euro will become and the less will be the need for a EUR-CHF peg. If Germany dumps the Euro, however, the new Dmark will be Europe's premier safe-haven currency and the Swiss will definitely not need a peg anymore.

Ideally I would only foresee the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Finland, Luxembourg and maybe Estonia (almost no debt) to remain in the Eurozone (who knows Sweden may join in if their strong currency kills them; Denmark is de facto an Eurozone country due to its mandated peg under ERM II).

Realistically, some insolvent countries may remain in the Eurozone:

-France, Belgium, Italy (we can say Italy has an industry if we can still call FIAT a car), Slovakia and Slovenia may remain in the Eurozone for political, historical and economic reasons.

-Portugal may be forgiven and stay in the Eurozone (at least they have shown seriousness and maturity in trying to solve their mess).

-Ireland should leave and maybe adopt the British Pound.

-Spain should definitely leave; an economy with no industry, overpriced real estate and overpriced tourism with 25% unemployment is hopeless.

-Greece, absolutely should leave; shouldn't have joined in the first place.
and what will happen when these countries leave the new smaller eurozone? there's no way that they can repay the debts. so you will end up with a national central bank default and boom, germany will go into hyperinflation and the euro is trashed anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #457  
Old 29.07.2012, 18:16
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
and what will happen when these countries leave the new smaller eurozone? there's no way that they can repay the debts. so you will end up with a national central bank default and boom, germany will go into hyperinflation and the euro is trashed anyway.
These countries are unable to even pay their national debts with the generous bail-outs they are receiving today. As more time passes, there will be more and more pressure from taxpayers in the solvent major Eurozone economies to question the logic of keeping these subprime countries on board the Euro project; and politicians always aim for reelection and wish to please their tax paying constituents.

I don't see how there will be hyperinflation in Germany though, and why the Euro would be trashed if it's most insolvent members get booted? Of course there will be a short-term market shock when countries leave the Euro, but capital flows into the Eurozone will normalize and strengthen if the single currency area no longer has to bailout insolvent countries.

It certainly won't be a walk in the park for countries leaving the Euro; Greece and Spain, in particular, will undergo a severe paradigm shift in their economic, political and social sphere. Massive amounts of debased currencies will require printing and lead to inflation, debt payments will stop, capital controls on hard currency will be implemented, industries may be nationalized, many people will lose their shirts, a lot of emigration will occur (already happening and to surprising destinations like Latin America, Angola, etc... where Spain and Portugal were once colonial masters). In essence, I would expect countries leaving the Eurozone to also be booted out of the EU to keep mass immigration out of the union and many policies booted countries may adopt post-exit may clash with EU law.

To put it simpler, Europe's economic, political and developmental borders will be redrawn, where the Pyrennes will become Europe's new southern border with Africa and the Carpathian, Serb-Kosovar and Montenegrin-Albanian borders will become Europe's new southeastern border with Asia.
Reply With Quote
  #458  
Old 29.07.2012, 21:58
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,567
Groaned at 472 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,378 Times in 10,229 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
It would also depend on what the Swiss government is doing with its newly acquired Euros; they could be buying negative yield German bonds or, what I would probably do, Gold. If it would be going into PIIGS debt, that would be worrying as there could be substantial losses during unwinding to cover the CHF they printed.
Rumour has it that SNB is buying euro denominated bonds issued by non eurozone countries.
Reply With Quote
  #459  
Old 29.07.2012, 22:01
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,567
Groaned at 472 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,378 Times in 10,229 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
Once the peg ends, the foreign currencies the Swiss government purchased will be used to buy back these CHFs printed due to the peg and the Swiss government will simply remove them from circulation, thus correspondingly decreasing the money supply.
Of course the risk is that these foreign currencies holdings will buy substantially fewer CHFs than they originally cost.
Reply With Quote
  #460  
Old 29.07.2012, 22:32
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,430
Groaned at 281 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 18,156 Times in 7,618 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gold Buying

Quote:
View Post
I don't see how there will be hyperinflation in Germany though, and why the Euro would be trashed if it's most insolvent members get booted?
if they exit and default, i think germany will suffer. just look at the target2 balances:

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
gold, swiss franc




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GOLD - Int'l recognition of swiss gold coins? Uncle GroOve Finance/banking/taxation 19 19.08.2011 18:04
Buying gold in Zurich Tiger Other/general 27 07.11.2010 14:21


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0